FEG Factory References and Informations

[prdubi]

As a representative of FEG, we also appreciate the information as the current owners are mainly engineers and not historians and research analysis like Laszlo.

[CXM]

Judging from condition, I'd say there is a good chance the gun is from the flood guns imported from Israel some 10 years or so ago... If this is the case, it would explain the replacement FN barrel. Izzy armorers used whatever part was at hand to make repairs.

I realize this model was not one used by the IDF... BUT not only did they buy small lots of all sorts of stuff, they also captured a LOT of stuff from their VERY un-military arab neighbors.

This is I realize speculation... FWIW

Chuck

[tray]

I have a counterfeit FEG Hi Power that doesn't seem to match the descriptions noted. It has a serial number C XXXXX, a spur hammer and is stamped as an FN. Does anyone have any information ?
Thank you, Tray

photos.app.goo.gl/HPJ5vWngUzj1doKP7

[CXM]

First, welcome to our HP forum... we hope you will have fun here and learn as well. We welcome your participation and comments.

I can't tell very much from the photo you posted, but the gun appears to be a standard HP clone made by FEG. FEG made a lot of HPs in the basic HP design. A lot of them were made to specific contracts and were given the nomenclature and serial number range specified by the contracting agency.

FEG HPs mostly had serial numbers with an alpha prefix... B-xxxx, C-xxxx and L-xxxx being common examples... I should add some probably had no alpha prefix. I'm sure there are other prefixes out there too.

Back in the early 2000 time frame Cole Dist. imported a LOT of military surplus HPs from Israel. The Israel Defense Force bought quite a lot of HPs from FEG during the years of the UN military goods embargo. FEG would quietly sell to the IDF when others would not. The IDF had standardized on the HP when it was starting out in part because they kept capturing lots of HPs from various arab countries who kept attacking Isreal... And losing lots of weapons in the process.

Our reference area has a lot of information on FEG serial numbers.

I hope that is of help.

Chuck

Jan 3, 2022 17:36:14 GMT -5 tray said:

I have a counterfeit FEG Hi Power that doesn't seem to match the descriptions noted. It has a serial number C XXXXX, a spur hammer and is stamped as an FN. Does anyone have any information ?
Thank you, Tray

photos.app.goo.gl/HPJ5vWngUzj1doKP7

[tray]

Chuck,
Thank you for your prompt reply. This pistol did come from Cole's about 9 years ago. I recognized it as a counterfeit and bought it for the novelty. I was pleased to find out it was a nice shooting Hi Power. The other novelty coming from Cole's is that it was blued not Parkerized.

photos.app.goo.gl/xvDMmtEdh3dDCSXt6

photos.app.goo.gl/1CYCNkxMVgqdDYeZ7

[ToddSig]

Welcome Tray. Hopefully Lazlo will stop by and also comment on your counterfeit Hi Power. In one of the posts on the FEG counterfeit Hi Powers stated

"FÉG counterfeit can be distinguished by the real Brownings to their slide different serration design, which is always 22 + a half. By the way, this was applicable not only to the counterfeit models but all other FÉG models as well. This half serration is coming from their quite old Czech-made Skoda slide milling machines which were hard to calibrate. Also, the trigger guard upper side had a different slope."

I counted your serrations, and if my eyes are correct you do have 22 1/2 rather than 23. Fellow HPC member PJK9HP did an excellent analysis of Hi/High Power and clone slide serrations. Well worht taking a look at.
Link to the thread is highpowercollectors.proboards.com/thread/459/serration-cuts-discussion

In all of Lazlo's serial number charts for FEGs I did not see a C prefix, although I could be missing it. It will be interesting to hear his comments on the serial number.  Any additional images of the various proof marks would also be of help.

Cool Hi Power. I want to add an FEG counterfeit Hi Power to my collection. I need to work on that. 

[sams1]

So... since we can't go by the serial numbers, how does one recognize a counterfeit other than when visually obvious, like uneven roll marks or serrations count etc?

[beczl]

It is definitely a Counterfeit FÉG HP based on the serration, the other small details and the serial number font type.

About the C prefix, FÉG did not use it for any of their HP clones. (as far as we know). This high C serial number would assume that 45,000 pistols are missing from the archive documents and my lists. But to the best of our knowledge, this is highly impossible because there is no know discrepancy between the overall number of units produced and the transport/export records.

by the way, the C on your slide looks smaller to me than the regular serial numbers followed. It's could be a custom-made gun.

[CXM]

I bought quite a few FEG guns some years ago from Cole Dist.

I knowingly bought a fake HP so I would have an example of one. Unfortunately, I no longer have the gun.

At that time I talked to Gary Cole about the serial number on the gun. He told me he understood they were made with an alpha prefix not used by FEG in order to give them some deniability about the source of the guns.

It seems to me that makes sense.


FWIW

Chuck

[mrgiggles]

Just PM'ed beczl some data I gathered on P9's imported into the U.S. in the last couple of years. I had been gathering this info in the hopes of finding some patterns and try to put together some sort of post like he has for collectors. Come to find out, he has done a MUCH better job than I ever could have. Don't know if the information will be of any help to him, but, I figured it can't hurt to send it his way.

[mrgiggles]

I am posting the info I have gathered for the sake of having it out there for everyone to see. It is not very well organized, but it should be clear enough, I hope.

The information I have gathered was done by watching videos on the "themosincrate" channel on YouTube. The individual lists with titles and dates on the left side of the image are titles of videos from this channel, and the date they were uploaded on.

I would go through the video where he would show an FEG Hi Power, and record its serial number, and the type of markings it had on it.

In the center of the image is the "key", so to speak. All of the serial numbers in the individual lists are marked as to which marks they have.

On the right side of the image, we have all of the "B" and "L" serial numbers I gathered from the videos, in numerical order. Some of the numbers are underlined, but most are not. This was my attempt to find a pattern in the markings. Again, for an accurate record of what each serial number's gun's marks were, refer to the individual lists.

I did reach out to Alden, owner and operator of "themosincrate", and asked if he had any list of serial numbers on hand for all the FEG Hi Powers he has sold in the past. While he was unable to provide any specifics (understandbly, as he is a one man business), he did share with me that he has personally sold somewhere in the neighborhood of 600 of these pistols in the past few years.

Below you will find the link to the image. Again, it is NOWHERE NEAR as nicely organized or thought out as beczl's stuff, but, here it is:

i.imgur.com/gCRRgng.png

[ToddSig]

Thanks for sharing the data with us. Were you able to draw any conclusions from mosincrate FEGs, the serial number sequences and rollmarks etc? The more information and data we have on FEGs the better.

[mrgiggles]

The only definitive conclusion I was able to draw is that ALL G prefix pistols are very consistent in their markings, and all have the later "P9M" internals. This is most easily distinguished by their slide stop/slide release being of a different style than original Hi Powers, and, indeed, earlier FEG P9's.

My operating theory on the chronological order of the slide markings was as follows:
1st: Italic markings (red underline in my image)
2nd: Non italic markings (green underline in my image)
3rd: 1 line markings (1L in my image)
4th: Dot matrix style markings (blue underline in my image)

However, with the data presented in this thread, I'm not so sure I'm correct. My method for arriving to my theory was simply looking at where the markings were chronologically, in terms of serial number. I then cross referenced that with the general trend of companies to cut costs and streamline things as time goes on.

So, my thinking was: They first went with the nice italic markings. Then, they realized it would make production a little quicker to have the markings all be non-italic. Then, more efficient and quick still to only stamp one line of markings instead of two. Finally, arriving at the "dot matrix style" of marking, which makes additional text negligible, thus making it just as cost effective to put more information on than before.

Again, I want to stress that this is ALL speculative on my part, and should not be taken as fact. Just my observations and theorys.

It is also worth mentioning that, although I tried to avoid it as much as possible, there is SOME guesswork when it comes to certain serial numbers. The video quality wasn't the greatest on the earlier videos, so there was some "is that a 5 or an 8?" going on.

I can also fairly definitively say that FEG did NOT separate serial number blocks for certain contracts. You can see the "luger" marked examples are just in the middle of the rest of the regular P9's serial range. But, for their larger contracts, such as the "Mauser" contract, they DID create a separate serial number range.

[vlim]

Very interesting information and thank you for sharing it. I have been following and studying the Mauser FEGs for over a decade.

My small contribution is that the first batch of Mauser DA pistols did not have the Mod. 90 DA model on the slide. Furthermore these pistols have no Hungarian proofs but German commercial proofs and a Kettner (Kett) dealer marking. The 1991 and later DA pistols are proofed in Hungary.

I recently bought a 80 SA sports pistol. 1994 German proof. Delighted to find that FEG made these too.

[beczl]

Thank you for that information. I never see any Mauser without Mod. 90 on the slide right. Do you have a photo of this version?

I saw at least three versions of markings.

- Mauser Werke on the slide left, Mod. 90 at the right side; Hungarian proofs on the trigger guard left side, no 'KETT' marks on the trigger guard right side
- Mauser Werke on the slide left, Cal. 9 mm PARABELLUM at the right side; no Hungarian proofs on the trigger guard left side, 'KETT' marks on the trigger guard right side, german proofs on the barrel, frame and slide right side
- Mauser Werke on the slide left, but no Mod. 90 at the right side of the slide, german proofs on the frame right side, no other proof or mark