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Post by simon on Sept 27, 2022 5:14:14 GMT -5
Hi All - I'm in the UK where (with very few exceptions) the only High Powers legal to own are deactivated guns. My Dad recently passed away and left me his collection - my favourite has always been his High Power but I knew little about it, so have been trying to learn as much as possible by reading this forum and other sources. I've posted some pictures (although the photos don't really do it justice - in reality the finish has an amazing shine when the light catches it correctly, even though it looks black in the pictures). As far as I can work out from my limited research it is a Belgian FN with the relevant markings visible through the ejection port and an 'E*' Inspectors mark of Auguste Jamart, placing its date of manufacture between 1924 and 1954. (The E* and PV are also imprinted on the left side of the frame and slide). The serial number is 5277, which is visible on the slide and frame, although not on the barrel as far as I can see. It also has the thumb print on the front right hand side of the slide. I cannot see any additional external markings (other than the UK deactivation stamps) - there is nothing obvious on the trigger, trigger guard or hammer. On the right hand side under the part of the barrel that is visible through the ejection port there is 'RR' and underneath it what looks like an '8' inside three sides of a square (left, top and right sides present with nothing at the bottom). On the opposite side of this there is a single 'R'. I have no idea what these markings mean. I have no knowledge of anything else about the gun's design (e.g. sights or hammer type) that might provide clues about its age or history. I also appreciate that the way in which the serial numbers were issued on these guns means they can be difficult to age accurately but from my little knowledge, would I be anywhere in the ball park by guessing early post-war? Amateur detective work aside, can any of you give a more expert appraisal of this fine weapon's approximate age please? Also, have I interpreted the markings correctly and what else is useful to look for in assessing this particular piece? I can post more photos if helpful. Thanks in advance, Simon. Further to my original post above, I've only just spotted the most blatant stamping at the front of the grip frame towards its base - 'L.G.K.T.' with '0630' directly underneath. Quick internet research into this reveals L.G.K.T refers to 'LandesGendarmerieKommando Tirol' (Rural Police Command, Tirol). Tirol is a Federal State in western Austria. [source = forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/any-browning-9mm-highpower-experts-here.3869232/ ] Has anyone else come across these markings previously or can you tell me anything more about the L.G.K.T.-issued pistols? Finally, to the rear of the magazine well entrance on the base I've found two identical stampings close to each other comprising a letter 'V' with a short horizontal line under the apex of the V. - Any idea what these mean? Photos attached, and again thanks in advance! Simon
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Post by CXM on Sept 27, 2022 7:22:45 GMT -5
Back in the mid-late 1990s Century Arms imported quite a few HPs from Austria and sold them on the surplus market. Century offered HPs in varying condition ranging from as new in original boxes at (if I recall correctly) $249 and down for guns in lower grades. They were a great buy. Century advertised them in Shotgun News at the time. Prices on these guns have gone up a LOT since then. Hope that is of help. Chuck Hi All - I'm in the UK where (with very few exceptions) the only High Powers legal to own are deactivated guns. My Dad recently passed away and left me his collection - my favourite has always been his High Power but I knew little about it, so have been trying to learn as much as possible by reading this forum and other sources. I've posted some pictures (although the photos don't really do it justice - in reality the finish has an amazing shine when the light catches it correctly, even though it looks black in the pictures). As far as I can work out from my limited research it is a Belgian FN with the relevant markings visible through the ejection port and an 'E*' Inspectors mark of Auguste Jamart, placing its date of manufacture between 1924 and 1954. (The E* and PV are also imprinted on the left side of the frame and slide). The serial number is 5277, which is visible on the slide and frame, although not on the barrel as far as I can see. It also has the thumb print on the front right hand side of the slide. I cannot see any additional external markings (other than the UK deactivation stamps) - there is nothing obvious on the trigger, trigger guard or hammer. On the right hand side under the part of the barrel that is visible through the ejection port there is 'RR' and underneath it what looks like an '8' inside three sides of a square (left, top and right sides present with nothing at the bottom). On the opposite side of this there is a single 'R'. I have no idea what these markings mean. I have no knowledge of anything else about the gun's design (e.g. sights or hammer type) that might provide clues about its age or history. I also appreciate that the way in which the serial numbers were issued on these guns means they can be difficult to age accurately but from my little knowledge, would I be anywhere in the ball park by guessing early post-war? Amateur detective work aside, can any of you give a more expert appraisal of this fine weapon's approximate age please? Also, have I interpreted the markings correctly and what else is useful to look for in assessing this particular piece? I can post more photos if helpful. Thanks in advance, Simon. Further to my original post above, I've only just spotted the most blatant stamping at the front of the grip frame towards its base - 'L.G.K.T.' with '0630' directly underneath. Quick internet research into this reveals L.G.K.T refers to 'LandesGendarmerieKommando Tirol' (Rural Police Command, Tirol). Tirol is a Federal State in western Austria. [source = forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/any-browning-9mm-highpower-experts-here.3869232/ ] Has anyone else come across these markings previously or can you tell me anything more about the L.G.K.T.-issued pistols? Finally, to the rear of the magazine well entrance on the base I've found two identical stampings close to each other comprising a letter 'V' with a short horizontal line under the apex of the V. - Any idea what these mean? Photos attached, and again thanks in advance! Simon
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Post by tnorris on Sept 27, 2022 9:09:35 GMT -5
** I would like to see closeup detail photos of the number on the trigger guard, the barrel, and any other details you uncover. There may be a similar number inside the slide, on the firing pin retaining plate and other parts. I would also like to a photo of the front of the recoil spring guide rod.
Cheers,
Tim
Hi Tim - here are the extra photos you requested. The more I look at the faint stamp on the trigger guard the more it looks like a '9' in a 3-sided square enclosure (left, top and bottom). You can see from the interior of the slide the way in which the poor thing has been butchered to comply with UK deactivation laws, so I don't know how much that image is of use to you - I can't see any stampings in there.
Good Morning Simon,
I am attaching three photos of my 1950 pistol because the date stamps are more clear than yours and it is from the same general time period. I can no longer "see" the " 4 " on your trigger guard! I agree it could be a " 9 ". I question the " 8 " on your barrel... my barrel has a clearly defined " 8 " and sometimes I see an " 8 " in yours, sometimes I see a " 3 ". By serial number, which is not always a reliable dating method, yours would be from the early '50s rather than the late '40s.
There seems to be some motion blur in your photos.
Sometimes some side lighting will bring out details of stamps.
I like to put my phone/camera on a tripod for these macro pictures and manipulate the part in the light under the phone lens to see as it clears up revealing a better image, especially on beautifully blued gun metal. Sometimes I wish I could activate the shutter with a voice command!
Re: Guide Rod - I would like to see the other end to see if it is the original slotted guide rod or if it had been replaced with a new version during its useful life. Mine came to me with the original guide rod.
Re: Deactivation - What damage was done to the frame?
PHOTOS FOR REFERENCE:
Barrel stamp on the side opposite from yours.
Firing Pin Retaining Plate This could be a 9 or a 6
Frame Stamp on Trigger Guard - Left Side I have seen several 1950 stamped pistols. Each had a stamp on the left side and upside down.
I must thank you for this discussion... it prompted me to closely examine one of my favorite High Powers!
Cheers,
Tim
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Post by simon on Sept 28, 2022 7:18:09 GMT -5
Back in the mid-late 1990s Century Arms imported quite a few HPs from Austria and sold them on the surplus market. Century offered HPs in varying condition ranging from as new in original boxes at (if I recall correctly) $249 and down for guns in lower grades. They were a great buy. Century advertised them in Shotgun News at the time. Prices on these guns have gone up a LOT since then. Hope that is of help. Chuck Thanks Chuck - it's interesting to learn about this. Simon
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Post by simon on Sept 28, 2022 7:58:26 GMT -5
Good Morning Simon,
I am attaching three photos of my 1950 pistol because the date stamps are more clear than yours and it is from the same general time period. I can no longer "see" the " 4 " on your trigger guard! I agree it could be a " 9 ". I question the " 8 " on your barrel... my barrel has a clearly defined " 8 " and sometimes I see an " 8 " in yours, sometimes I see a " 3 ". By serial number, which is not always a reliable dating method, yours would be from the early '50s rather than the late '40s.
There seems to be some motion blur in your photos.
Sometimes some side lighting will bring out details of stamps.
I like to put my phone/camera on a tripod for these macro pictures and manipulate the part in the light under the phone lens to see as it clears up revealing a better image, especially on beautifully blued gun metal. Sometimes I wish I could activate the shutter with a voice command!
Re: Guide Rod - I would like to see the other end to see if it is the original slotted guide rod or if it had been replaced with a new version during its useful life. Mine came to me with the original guide rod.
Re: Deactivation - What damage was done to the frame?
Hi Tim,
To answer your questions, it's definitely my shaky photo skills that made the '8' unclear - here it is again in a fresh photo..so definitely not a 3.
Re the guide rod, I've posted a photo of the opposite end, looking down the spring (the outcome looks like it might win some sort of abstract art prize!)
Re the deactivation, part of the breech face has been ground back and sections of the rail have also been chopped to weaken it. The process also involves the barrel being blocked, a slot cut along the underside and more brutal machine work at the breech end of the barrel. At least it still looks good on the outside!
Hope this answers your questions.
Regards,
Simon
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Post by bartb on Oct 18, 2022 11:55:10 GMT -5
Has anyone ever seen on with a serial A380 on the frame and 380 on the slide and barrel?
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Post by p35 on Oct 18, 2022 12:03:04 GMT -5
View AttachmentHas anyone ever seen on with a serial A380 on the frame and 380 on the slide and barrel? The lack of a magazine disconnect and low serial number means it's a late 44 or early 1945 production. You will see an example of this on page 307 of Anthony Vanderlindens book. The A was roll marked on the frame and then only the serial number was stamped later.
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Post by bartb on Oct 22, 2022 7:51:59 GMT -5
Wow, thx so much, are they rare or common? Wondering a value if it's in decent condition.
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Post by p35 on Oct 22, 2022 9:25:15 GMT -5
Wow, thx so much, are they rare or common? Wondering a value if it's in decent condition. In good condition I would venture a guess between $1,000 and $1,500 depending on barrel condition.
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Post by 332pacific on Nov 23, 2022 15:23:43 GMT -5
new to the forum i've come across a hipower with a 5 digit serial number 37747 . matching numbers on the frame and slide i've checked the serial number posts on this forum but unable find the year of manufacture. The slide is marked with the standard European "Fabrique Nationale d'Arms De Guerre - Herstal Belgique - Browning's patent depose". any help please
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Post by ToddSig on Nov 23, 2022 16:15:21 GMT -5
new to the forum i've come across a hipower with a 5 digit serial number 37747 . matching numbers on the frame and slide i've checked the serial number posts on this forum but unable find the year of manufacture. The slide is marked with the standard European "Fabrique Nationale d'Arms De Guerre - Herstal Belgique - Browning's patent depose". any help please Welcome to HPC 332pacific. Dating from serial number only is a challenge and not always correct as FN would allow contract purchasers to request serial numbers. Therefore, they are not always sequential, or mean what you might think. The best way is to look at various part elements, such as slide, extractor (internal or external?, slide thumb print depression, sights etc. Also proof marks and inspector marks on parts, including the barrel are most helpful. Please post a few images and we will see if we can get a date narrowed down.
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Post by skier5054 on Nov 25, 2022 16:14:36 GMT -5
Hello All, I recently came into the possession of a HI Power and was curious (like everyone else on here haha) about the manufacture date etc. After reading several posts from many of the different threads on this website I was still unable to get a hard date. BTW you guys all had great information that helped get me close to the right decade of manufacture, as it turns out its from the late 40's if the literature and photo descriptions I just read are true. Now I would like to hear what everyone/anyone has to say about the "proof" so to say, that I was able to track down. Obviously I started with the serial number but quickly found out Browning's own SN records are either incomplete or just plain wrong regarding atleast some models. My SN is "5T1997" Now I was unable to find any mention of BHP SN with those characteristics among compiled Browning material online. www.guns.com/news/2019/12/10/john-brownings-final-performance-the-browning-hi-powerThis above site has the info I am basing my assumption on, even has photos of the different series so it was fairly easy to atleast get with in the correct decade. Underneath the first set of BHP photos which are said to have been MFG in the 40s, the caption reads, "This rare late 1940s-produced Hi-Power is a very early model featuring the “dimple” on the right side of the slide to help with take down for maintenance and the “thumbprint” style internal extractor. Marked “LGK OO”: Landesgendarmeriekommando für Oberösterreich (Provincial Gendarmerie Command for Upper Austria), it is a former Austrian police-issue handgun. This first part of the description is exactly like mine but i was not able to find any of the verbage which dictates is may have been used by Austrian police. I have pictures but not sure how to include them here. Anyways the gun needs some serious TLC and I can say without a dought it is a match gun. All parts seem to be original and most importantly, the SN are stacked on the receiver, barrel, and the ejector. Please I would love to hear all of your thoughts on this and if needed I have pictures. It is currently stripped and awaiting a deep clean. Biggest question I have now is what can I replace while still holding on the history and possible monetary worth of the gun. I must say it is missing the original clip and the hand grips so those must be replaced with something and of there arebany suggestions please include them. Thanks guys.
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Post by ToddSig on Nov 25, 2022 17:41:08 GMT -5
Hi Ryan, and welcome to HPC. Yes, we really do need images to tell you more about your High Power. If your are continuing in this thread, press the reply button, then start to type you content. In the top right hand corner of the posting box is an "add attachment" link. click on "Add Attachment". Then click on " + add files". Find the images on your computer and then click on the image you want and then open. Then it returns you to the add attachment box, click "done" and a small thumbnail of the image should be inserted into your post. Then hit create post. We can then click on the thumbnail and enlarge to view details of your High Power.
If you still have problems, message me, you can send me the images and I can upload.
Looking forward to seeing your High Power.
Todd
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Post by gregg on Nov 28, 2022 18:01:51 GMT -5
I am doing my due diligence looking for information on a recently purchased High Power internal extractor thumb print model. It was in pretty rough condition and took hours of cleaning to take pictures clear enough to ask the forum for some background information. Since there is a limit on pictures, I have spelled out my findings. What are your thoughts on date of manufacture, site of production, site of assembly? I assume from the information below (*N) it was manufactured 1952. 1. The left side of the barrel has markings serial number 41717, a boxed 2 and an underlined H on the lug. 2. The right side of the barrel has markings of a crown with E(?),L and G inside, a * over N, a P.V under a lion; CAL 9 m/m P.; and two underlined H's on the lug. 3. The right side of the frame above the trigger housing is marked with serial number 41717 X (the X looks like an add on as it is slightly smaller than the 41717, a * over N, and a P.V under a lion. 4. The safety has a boxed 1 engraved. 5. The right side of the slide is engraved with serial number 41717X, a * over N, P.V under a lion. 6. The left side of the slide is engraved FABRIQUE NATIONALE DARMES DE GUERRE HERSTAL BELGIQUE BROWNING'S PATENT DEPOSE, a * over N, and a P.V under a lion. 7. the right side of the hammer has an engraved 0 Thank You, Gregg
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Post by ToddSig on Nov 28, 2022 18:48:18 GMT -5
I am doing my due diligence looking for information on a recently purchased High Power internal extractor thumb print model. It was in pretty rough condition and took hours of cleaning to take pictures clear enough to ask the forum for some background information. Since there is a limit on pictures, I have spelled out my findings. What are your thoughts on date of manufacture, site of production, site of assembly? I assume from the information below (*N) it was manufactured 1952. View AttachmentView AttachmentView Attachment1. The left side of the barrel has markings serial number 41717, a boxed 2 and an underlined H on the lug. 2. The right side of the barrel has markings of a crown with E(?),L and G inside, a * over N, a P.V under a lion; CAL 9 m/m P.; and two underlined H's on the lug. 3. The right side of the frame above the trigger housing is marked with serial number 41717 X (the X looks like an add on as it is slightly smaller than the 41717, a * over N, and a P.V under a lion. 4. The safety has a boxed 1 engraved. 5. The right side of the slide is engraved with serial number 41717X, a * over N, P.V under a lion. 6. The left side of the slide is engraved FABRIQUE NATIONALE DARMES DE GUERRE HERSTAL BELGIQUE BROWNING'S PATENT DEPOSE, a * over N, and a P.V under a lion. 7. the right side of the hammer has an engraved 0 Thank You, Gregg Welcome to HPC Gregg. Thanks for posting the images and proof mark descriptions. Would love to see images of the full pistol. Just post again, with the additional pictures. To get things started, in Vanderlinden's 3rd edition, page 198 he states on FN Factory manufacturing markings, "FN applied a number of small markings as parts of their own quality control". The markings can indicate - Which operate manufactured the part
- If the part was rejected
- FN Final inspection
- When a part was made
We know what some of the inspector marks are or who they belong to, many others we dont.
The */N is an FN inspector mark, belonging to Henri Florkin who inspected between 1927 and 1958. The crown over an oval with an E/LG is the Proof of Liege (Epreuve de Liege) final proof mark. The Lion over PV is the smokeless powder proof mark for barrels which notes it passed the smokeless powder test. This proof is typically found on FN pistols manufactured after 1903. The H on the barrel is probably just an inspector mark. You cant always date FN High Powers by the serial number, as FN allowed contracts to include requested serial numbers by the client. That said, yours does fall into the early 1950s time frame. If I am seeing properly, the barrel lug has a 2 with a partial box around it with an open top. That would signify first quarter of 1952 for the production date of the barrel. The partial boxed 2 on the trigger guard is harder to see all of the lines, but a box with an open top is 1st quarter of 1952, a line on the left and bottom, 2nd quarter, a partial box with open bottom 3rd quarter and a top line and right side line, 4th quarter of 1952. I would like to see an image of the 0 on the hammer. Any lines around it? It could be a production date mark, or just an inspector mark. I have a customized High Power with serial #40230, matching barrel, frame, and slide, *D, Controller of the proof Rene Marchal, 1951-1968, on barrel, frame, and slide FN Production date codes, on barrel 1st quarter 1952, on slide stop, 1st quarter 1952. So similar to yours. With that I would agree your High Power is probably late 1952 or perhaps into 1953. Thanks for posting and sharing. Please post again with some additional full images.
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