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Post by cmdrcody on Nov 2, 2023 20:47:30 GMT -5
Since the last update was a few months ago and I'm new, I figured I throw mine out there. After wanting a HP for several decades, I ran across these two within one month of each other, ya just don't run across HP's. They were both around $1k. The T series is as nice in the flesh as the photos, around 97-98% finish. That's reflection in the photo, plus the rug, I got lucky. The newer 82 MkIII was HP's satin, black, baked finish, but I found it buffs out like laquer if polished? 82 would be a MKII not a MKIII How did you date it?
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Post by 03hemi on Nov 3, 2023 7:46:44 GMT -5
I probably have that incorrect, maybe it's 92, but it's definately a MkIII.
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Post by ToddSig on Nov 3, 2023 10:45:30 GMT -5
I probably have that incorrect, maybe it's 92, but it's definately a MkIII. 92 and MKIII makes sense, as MKIII came out around 1988, ending the classic or pre-MKII and MKII variants. You also probably have one of the last forged frame HPs. I think about +/-1993 FN switched from forged to cast frames
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Post by cmdrcody on Nov 3, 2023 12:38:45 GMT -5
Serial number with 245NY***** would be 92. Nice firearms
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Post by ericrodrgz on Nov 6, 2023 15:29:02 GMT -5
German Occupation Hi Power I just picked up that came with a Inglis magazine. It is serial number 66708a, could someone inform me which year it was made? Im super excited to add it to the collection
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Post by ToddSig on Nov 6, 2023 17:07:20 GMT -5
German Occupation Hi Power I just picked up that came with a Inglis magazine. It is serial number 66708a, could someone inform me which year it was made? Im super excited to add it to the collection Nice find. Serial number 66708a would make this one of the later occupation produced High Powers. Vanderlinden calls it the WaA140 Second Sub Variant with "A" marked serial number suffixes. The serial number range is from 1a to 99,999a, and they were produced between May 1943 and Dec 193. If all things equal, you are just passed mid way in the "A" production time line. So you should have WaA140 Waffen marks. If you note the trigger does not have the hole for the mag safety as by this time the Germans were streamlining production, and did away with it. Regarding the magazine being a John Inglis. Is the body and baseplate marked "JI". If not, you provably have a period correct, possibly original mag to you High Power. The split tail baseplate was used by FN and occupation periods until 1946.
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Post by tnorris on Nov 6, 2023 17:07:23 GMT -5
German Occupation Hi Power I just picked up that came with a Inglis magazine. It is serial number 66708a, could someone inform me which year it was made? Im super excited to add it to the collection
It was made in 1943. Best guess is mid to late September.
Below is just a silly estimate on my part: A total of 101,000 High Powers were made in 1943.
The first 7200 that year did not have the " a " suffix. The rest, 93,800, starting with #001, were " a " suffix pistols.
If production per month was consistent at 8416.66 pistols per month, you get September 23, 1943 as a production date.
If you use a production per day rate of 276.712 pistols per day, you would wind up with September 26, 1943. (... if I did the math right.)
As far as I know, there are no records indicating any steady production rate or daily quotas, days off, labor slow-downs etc. Mid to late September is probably as close as you get.
If you run across more detailed production/work records, please share!
Cheers, Tim
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Post by ericrodrgz on Nov 6, 2023 19:13:46 GMT -5
the magazine does not have any markings at all, I just assumed John Inglis since thats what I was told by the seller but I am thrilled to know that the magazine could possibly be original!!
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Post by ericrodrgz on Nov 6, 2023 19:22:25 GMT -5
German Occupation Hi Power I just picked up that came with a Inglis magazine. It is serial number 66708a, could someone inform me which year it was made? Im super excited to add it to the collection
It was made in 1943. Best guess is mid to late September.
Below is just a silly estimate on my part: A total of 101,000 High Powers were made in 1943.
The first 7200 that year did not have the " a " suffix. The rest, 93,800, starting with #001, were " a " suffix pistols.
If production per month was consistent at 8416.66 pistols per month, you get September 23, 1943 as a production date.
If you use a production per day rate of 276.712 pistols per day, you would wind up with September 26, 1943. (... if I did the math right.)
As far as I know, there are no records indicating any steady production rate or daily quotas, days off, labor slow-downs etc. Mid to late September is probably as close as you get.
If you run across more detailed production/work records, please share!
Cheers, Tim
Wow man thanks for going into detail, I appreciate the information, excited to finally be part of the club
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Post by ericrodrgz on Nov 6, 2023 19:23:50 GMT -5
German Occupation Hi Power I just picked up that came with a Inglis magazine. It is serial number 66708a, could someone inform me which year it was made? Im super excited to add it to the collection Nice find. Serial number 66708a would make this one of the later occupation produced High Powers. Vanderlinden calls it the WaA140 Second Sub Variant with "A" marked serial number suffixes. The serial number range is from 1a to 99,999a, and they were produced between May 1943 and Dec 193. If all things equal, you are just passed mid way in the "A" production time line. So you should have WaA140 Waffen marks. If you note the trigger does not have the hole for the mag safety as by this time the Germans were streamlining production, and did away with it. Regarding the magazine being a John Inglis. Is the body and baseplate marked "JI". If not, you provably have a period correct, possibly original mag to you High Power. The split tail baseplate was used by FN and occupation periods until 1946. I also wanted to ask, since it is a late production occupation gun, I have heard of sabotage by forced labor employees. Would you personally recommend being able to shoot this example or should it just be a wall hanger? Thanks
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Post by tnorris on Nov 6, 2023 19:48:09 GMT -5
Nice find. Serial number 66708a would make this one of the later occupation produced High Powers. Vanderlinden calls it the WaA140 Second Sub Variant with "A" marked serial number suffixes. The serial number range is from 1a to 99,999a, and they were produced between May 1943 and Dec 193. If all things equal, you are just passed mid way in the "A" production time line. So you should have WaA140 Waffen marks. If you note the trigger does not have the hole for the mag safety as by this time the Germans were streamlining production, and did away with it. Regarding the magazine being a John Inglis. Is the body and baseplate marked "JI". If not, you provably have a period correct, possibly original mag to you High Power. The split tail baseplate was used by FN and occupation periods until 1946. I also wanted to ask, since it is a late production occupation gun, I have heard of sabotage by forced labor employees. Would you personally recommend being able to shoot this example or should it just be a wall hanger? Thanks
I picked up #25342a a few years ago. After replacing all of the springs - including the sear spring, I have taken it to the range a couple times and put a magazine or two through it. I used a new magazine, of course. It shoots well, just like a High Power. For me, it will never be a frequent shooter. I have others for that.
In addition to all of the springs, you must to replace the Recoil Spring Guide Rod. It has a spring inside which is not replaceable. Watch out for the grips, the wood may begin to crumble. Please have a High Power Specialist do this work and a perform a full inspection, unless you are qualified...
All of the original parts that are no longer usable have been archived for posterity.
Cheers, Tim
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Post by ToddSig on Nov 7, 2023 8:36:39 GMT -5
I also wanted to ask, since it is a late production occupation gun, I have heard of sabotage by forced labor employees. Would you personally recommend being able to shoot this example or should it just be a wall hanger? Thanks Vanderlinden states in his 3rd edition, that WaA140 pistols "are prone to parts breakage under repeated firing". He mentions that starting with the WaA140 pistols, a large number of parts broke under the stress of repeated firing. The failures are attributed to improper heat treating, making the parts brittle. He also states some dimensions tolerances were out of specification. Parts included loose or easily broken front sights, broke extractors, broken recoil springs, and loose safety pins. Regarding sabotage, Vanderlinden states (page 101) "The faulty heat treatment made the parts strong enough to pass inspection, but brittle and breakable under regular use. The sabotage technique was applied on many FN parts, including parts for the High Power pistol, specifically WaA140 and Eagle N marked High Power pistols." If you are interested in collecting FN/High Power pistols, the 3rd edition of FN Browning Pistols is a must have. For more info www.fnbrowning.com/book-fn-browning-pistols-3rd-editioI agree with Tim on not shooting it often. I have 52747a, which I purchased about 10 years ago, I shot it once to see how it functioned (shot fine) and then put it away. Regarding the breaking parts, mine has a cracked mag release latch. Cant say if it was from improper heat treating or not, but it is broken.
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Post by ToddSig on Nov 7, 2023 9:03:20 GMT -5
ericrodrgz I just took a second look at your images and noticed the baseplate of your magazine. Unfortunately, it does look like you have an unmarked John Inglis mag. The FN mags of the period had the split tail like the Inglis, but no drain hole and an outset front of the baseplate were the Inglis is straight. FN/Occupation on the left, John Inglis on the right.
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Post by ToddSig on Nov 18, 2023 11:34:24 GMT -5
A few months ago I purchased the Apex Tactical kit with hammer, hard sear, sear lever and wide straight trigger. I had been looking for an HP to modify/enhance with the Apex parts and about a month ago I spotted a late T series which looked perfect for my needs. It was FN marked with the triple stacked serial numbers, T374437. Dates from 1972 based on production mark on the barrel. It had old Pachmayr grips (which cracked and broke when taken off), an extended gold tone slide stop and the front sight was a replacement and the rear sight opening had been enlarged. Finish looked OK, but hard to tell. I thought perfect for a project, and price should not go crazy. It arrives, and I am impressed by the condition. I clean it up and the bluing is in amazing condition, changed out the extended slide stop for an OEM, and added some French Walnut red back grips. Decided it was too nice to mess with, and was a keeper. It also came with a John Inglis magazine, not the later RA marked mags, but a true JI tube and base plate marked mag. Sold that on EBay for about $120. So netted out a very decent price. Given the high polished blue and no lanyard ring I am thinking it was a European commercial High Power rather than contract/surplus. The replaced front sight and the enlarged opening on the rear were well done, so probably by a competent smith. Now I have to find another donor HP for my Apex Tactical Kit. No real downside, a win-win, I added a great T Series, and still get to hunt for a donor for my project. A few images Before After clean up
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Post by ruber on Nov 18, 2023 12:49:15 GMT -5
Very nice, a keeper for sure!
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