Trying to date my BHP

[Ian Wetherall]

My BHP ser. Nr125131 with T and asterisk and internal extractor is dated to when?
Thank you in advance.
Ian Wetherall South Africa.

[tnorris]

Very interesting!

The internal extractor was replaced with an external extractor in 1962.
The T Series serial numbers began around 1964, with external extractors.

By serial number yours would have been produced in 1964 as a T Series.
The internal extractor seems an anomaly... Perhaps the asterisk indicates this, anomaly?
Perhaps this was a gun serialized in 1964 with earlier production parts.

Are you able to post pictures of the details - rollmarks, stamps and other markings on the frame, slide and barrel? Sometimes these are helpful for amateur High Power Detectives. There may be different marks on different components to identify when they were proofed.

[CXM]

I'd agree your T series is 1964... except for the fact that FN produced "T" series guns outside the accepted number range... though all of those I have seen are on the high end of the series...

This may be a SWAG, but I think the asterisk suggests some sort of modification. Do you know any thing of the history of the gun?

Most factory service departments of gun makers use some sort of mark to indicate a gun has had major work done at a factory service center... for example S&W would stamp the frame under the stocks with a date, usually three numbers indicating it had had factory work.

My best guess is your gun went back to a manufacturer service center for the replacement of a cracked slide. When it got to the repair center, the old internal extractor slide was no longer produced so a new external extractor slide was fitted.

I agree some good clear photos of all the proof marks, both internal and external would help a lot as would any known history of the gun.

Not much help, but maybe we can be of more help with the photos.

Welcome to the board...

V/r

Chuck

[ibmikey]

Does the serial number in fact have a T prefix or is that located elsewhere on the pistol? I am a little unsure as to your meaning and where the asterisk is located. In any event without good photos to study any response as to your questions would be mere guesswork.

[alp1971]

Hello, I am a complete newbie but I think Ian Wetherall's comment was not fully understood.
I believe Ian's HP has a serial number 125131, no "T" as part of the serial.
Then his HP has a mark showing a letter "T" under an asterisk.
And it also has an internal extractor.
Maybe Ian Wetherall could confirm all this.
At least I have a similar case, with serial # 118XXX, and I thought I could help with Ian's case and maybe get some feedback for mine too...

[tnorris]

Oct 16, 2020 13:01:52 GMT -5 alp1971 said:

Hello, I am a complete newbie but I think Ian Wetherall's comment was not fully understood.
I believe Ian's HP has a serial number 125131, no "T" as part of the serial.
Then his HP has a mark showing a letter "T" under an asterisk.
And it also has an internal extractor.
Maybe Ian Wetherall could confirm all this.
At least I have a similar case, with serial # 118XXX, and I thought I could help with Ian's case and maybe get some feedback for mine too...

Of course!

The *T could be the Controller of Proof mark used by Laenen Clement from 1952 - 1968. That would date the pistol in the '52-'62 range. There should be a date code on the front side of the trigger guard. It could be on either side. Perhaps Mr Wetherall will visit again and send pictures which is extremely difficult to do on this forum.

I have had a couple guys send photos to my email... It would not be horrible to receive photos from others. Perhaps others here could look at them, too. I would gladly share...

Tim

TNorris [at] ameritech [.] net

[alp1971]

Thanks for your quick response tnorris!
in an effort to identify my own case (serial # 118XXX) which is I understand very close to Ian Wetherall's serial number 125131, please allow me to provide some information for my case:
frame left side:
letter "Y" in forward left side of trigger guard
on left lower side, under grips:
number "2" inside open circle (no lower part)
stamp of three overlapping circles inside a square.

general information:
serial # 118xxx on barrel, slide, body
internal extractor
no thumbprint cutout
wooden grips
I would gladly send you pictures for my case if you want.
sorry to have "sequestered" Ian Wetherall's, but is the closest to my own that I have found on the web!!
Thanks a lot!!

[tnorris]

Oct 19, 2020 8:08:21 GMT -5 alp1971 said:

Thanks for your quick response tnorris!
in an effort to identify my own case (serial # 118XXX) which is I understand very close to Ian Wetherall's serial number 125131, please allow me to provide some information for my case:
frame left side:
letter "Y" in forward left side of trigger guard
on left lower side, under grips:
number "2" inside open circle (no lower part)
stamp of three overlapping circles inside a square.

general information:
serial # 118xxx on barrel, slide, body
internal extractor
no thumbprint cutout
wooden grips
I would gladly send you pictures for my case if you want.
sorry to have "sequestered" Ian Wetherall's, but is the closest to my own that I have found on the web!!
Thanks a lot!!

I would love to see photos!

Yours might be an easy one... third quarter of 1962 and inspected by Chesnoy Leon who used the mark *Y from 1927 to 1955, and '59-'68. It looks like the third and fourth quarters of 1962 were the only time a partial circle over a number were used.

I have a 1950 (#28915) with the year code stamped on the left side of the trigger guard. I recently looked at photos of a 1952 (56***) with the year code stamped on the right side of the trigger guard. Now your newer pistol, back to the left side...

I don't yet know what the other stamps indicate, but perhaps I will run across such information. A larger sampling of photos may help!

I am now wondering if anyone has a collection of High Powers with a sample inspected by each of the Controllers of Proof!

Tim

[alp1971]

thanks a lot Tim!
will send you an email with full info for my case, as you might get confused with Ian's above and my own incompleteness.

[tnorris]

Update to the above Pistol:

Looking at good photos it appears to be of 1962 production.

Controller of Proof mark "*T" for Laenen Clement (1952-1986)

A date code was found on the frame, but on the lower rear corner under the left side grip panel. This code was the number "2" with an upside down "U" over the top which seems to indicate 3rd quarter of 1962. The 3rd and 4th quarters of '62 were the only times a partial "circle" were used around a number...

Other date codes were found on the hammer and slide indicating 2nd quarter of 1962. These marks look like an odd "5" inside a square box with no top. The "5" is actually a mirror image of a "2", it is necessary to figure out when you are looking at the stamps upside down. In the 60's it looks like FN used reverse or alternate shaped numbers were used to differentiate them from the 40's and 50's - Except for the 3rd and 4th quarters of 1962... I'd love to know why.



I've been attempting only to date High Powers. The Controller of Proof marks and numerical date codes make this fairly simple. There are other marks, beyond the standard Proof Marks, on various parts in the High Power. I would love to know what these indicate. Perhaps a manufacturing line at FN or a group of machinists responsible for producing the parts???

Tim

[Bob Reed]

Hello,

Since I can't post photos myself, I don't really have any room to talk, but, if y'all can post photos of this HP, please do so!

Thanks, if possible.

[tnorris]

Oct 20, 2020 11:58:46 GMT -5 Bob Reed said:

Hello,

Since I can't post photos myself, I don't really have any room to talk, but, if y'all can post photos of this HP, please do so!

Thanks, if possible.

Hi Bob,

When atempting to post photos of any size, the forum says there is no storage left on the board. If it was possible, I would add my favorite date code cheat sheet (from "FN Browning Pistols" by Anthony Vanderlinden, pg 88" to the knowledge base. He included a photo of what appeared to be an old handwritten document with stampings that actually match those on post-war pre-T high powers. It is completely different than a similar handwritten page available at wwwDamascusBarrels.com. 

I would be happy to email info to you... send me a note to [ [e-mail] ].

Tim

Unable to upload file HP Date Codes.jpg.
Error: This forum has exceeded its attachment space limit. Your file cannot be uploaded.

[Bob Reed]

Tim, Thank You, - I'll send you an email.

BTW: We're going to try to gain some extra space for you guys to post photos.

Thanks again, Tim.

[ToddSig]

If we dont have the space, just let me know and I can put it on my imgur page to host until we get more site image storage.

Tim, I agree the date codes from Vanerlinden's book are great. I refer to them all the time. I too would like to discover what some of the other marks are on my Hi Powers beyond the inspector stamps, date of manufacture and proof codes. Some have very few marks, others have many.