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Post by huntershooter on May 27, 2017 19:04:29 GMT -5
One you don't see frequently; S&W m520. They made 3,000 for the NY State Police, who cancelled the order and went with the L frame, which had just recently been developed. Fixed sight N frame:
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520
May 27, 2017 20:45:27 GMT -5
Post by Carolinaman on May 27, 2017 20:45:27 GMT -5
Hello, Dang! That's nice! Best, Chris
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Post by CXM on May 28, 2017 8:28:38 GMT -5
Those are really nice... It is a shame S&W didn't put the 520 into general production...
In WWII the Army wanted a 357 Mag revolver for issue to specialized personnel such as aviators, tankers, artillery, MPs and the like for whom weight was not terribly important somewhat like the 1917 in WWII. S&W replied they could make the requested fixed sight 357, BUT they were already tooled up for the K frame 38 because of the large orders from the British purchasing commission. In addition, the K frame would cost less, use less strategic materials and probably most important deliveries could commence almost immediately. The ARmy must have agreed because it ordered M&P 38 Special revolvers rather than the .357mag.
As an aside here, the Army was also interested in a revolver in .30 Carbine. S&W made a few examples, one of which reportedly wound up in the hands of General of the Air Force H.H. Arnold.
It would have been nice to have had the 520 available in general production.
FWIW
Chuck
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520
May 28, 2017 13:28:22 GMT -5
Post by huntershooter on May 28, 2017 13:28:22 GMT -5
Interesting. I had never heard this.
I'd give a bit for one of Hap's .30 carbine S&W's.
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Post by submoa on Jun 2, 2017 23:26:11 GMT -5
VERY nice revolver HS...VERY nice ...
About a dozen years ago I ran across a NIB M520 on GB...jumped right on it, it seemed to fit with my M27s...and companion M28s. Literally, a couple weeks later I walked by a table at a local gun show and low and behold there was another one ...ANIB and only the second one I'd ever handled. It was Sunday afternoon and the show was near closing so I made a ridiculously low offer...don't recall exactly what it was off hand, but it was embarrassingly low. Apparently it wasn't but so embarrassing because the seller accepted it and asked for my DL/CWP. He also...quite unexpectedly, reached under the table and put the box...and papers, on the table as well .
Anyway, the NIB one remains NIB while the gun show one has been shot only occasionally. I've got pics of both, but they're both totally stock and look the same...well except that the pic of the gun show one is even worse than usual ...
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Post by CXM on Jun 3, 2017 4:34:04 GMT -5
The 520 is really an excellent revolver... I have a NIB example... it too has not been shot and therefore resides in Safe #1 (S&W Safe.)
It surprises me how many of the 520s you see are NIB or ANIB... possibly they were collector guns from the day they hit the market... anyway... they are not only unusual but nice too...
I'd bet some NY Troopers were not happy about the NYSP changing their order to L frame guns.
FWIW
CHuck
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520
Jun 4, 2017 18:36:45 GMT -5
Post by smith10 on Jun 4, 2017 18:36:45 GMT -5
Had not heard of these before. Cool history for sure.
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520
Jun 7, 2017 14:41:38 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Poohgyrr on Jun 7, 2017 14:41:38 GMT -5
N frame 357's are special! And the 520 has to be a bit xtra special. Congratulations!
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Post by Jäger on Jun 8, 2017 11:07:29 GMT -5
I'd bet some NY Troopers were not happy about the NYSP changing their order to L frame guns. I'll bet a lot more (if they'd been able to shoot both side by side) would have been quite happy with the decision to go with an L frame instead. Saving a bit of weight on already-overloaded duty belts isn't a bad thing either. A good percentage of the population are going to find a K frame a better fit than an N frame. 'Mo bigger = 'mo better is quite often not true in real life. PPC competition is overwhelmingly populated by peace officers. In all the time I competed in PPC, I saw very, very few N frames on the firing line. A few 1500 revolvers were probably built on N frames by somebody for somebody, but I never saw one. Pretty much everybody, plain and simple, is going to do better in precision shooting with a K frame than an N frame. Grip size, reach to trigger, trigger travel, etc. - geometry. The appearance of the full underlug L frame did capture some of the K frame crowd for the Distinguished matches, but the full underlug Model 14 still sits on top of that pile. Or at least, still did the last time I shot a match. Geometry again... if memory serves me correctly, the L frame cylinder is about .1" larger in diameter, as well as putting the axis of the barrel slightly higher above the hands. The N frame is all of that, in spades. It would be interesting to know how many used plain Jane Model 10's over the decades have disappeared into gunsmith shops, to emerge as full blown 1500 match guns. For a steady diet of heavy loads, the N frame (and L frame) is a clearly superior choice - but very, very few police officers ever put in that shooting regime. The extra round in the cylinder similarly is a clear advantage in many situations, the action shooting games of today among them; that didn't come along until revolvers had pretty much disappeared from law enforcement holsters. As police duty revolvers go, Bill Jordan's "peace officers' dream", the 4" Model 19 was the ne plus ultra of the breed. The one time I met Jordan at a dinner where he was speaking, I don't think I ever met anybody with paws as big as that man had; I'm sure more than a few basketball players have hands just as big, but I don't live in basketball country. Explains why those signature grips of his were so enormous. The craftsmanship, fit, and finish of Smith & Wesson revolvers extended over all models and frame sizes, both the good times and bad times.
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Post by CXM on Jun 8, 2017 14:48:00 GMT -5
Skeeter Skelton described Jordan's hands as "the size of toilet seats.' Bill Jordan was VERY good but a K frame look ridiculous in his huge hands, though he could make it sing... FWIW Chuck
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Post by sistema1927 on Jun 17, 2017 18:38:52 GMT -5
On some boards folks would be saying "Bill who?, Skeeter?"
But not here 'cause we are a bunch of old fogies. (And I "is" one.)
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Post by CXM on Jun 18, 2017 11:18:02 GMT -5
I be willing to bet someone who doesn't know who Elmer or Skeeter were also carried glocks... V/r Chuck On some boards folks would be saying "Bill who?, Skeeter?" But not here 'cause we are a bunch of old fogies. (And I "is" one.)
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520
Jul 11, 2017 17:24:17 GMT -5
Post by uncleed on Jul 11, 2017 17:24:17 GMT -5
Yes, the 520s are nice but if you want a "poor man's" 520, check out the availability on Gunbroker of HD .38/44s, the predecessor to the Model 20 and the 520. While not a magnum, in its day it shot the Heavy Duty .38 which was a 158 grain bullet at 1,125 feet a second.
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Post by CXM on Jul 11, 2017 18:00:30 GMT -5
The 'Heavy Duty' was the precursor of the .357 Mag and the original 38/44 158gr loads I have chronoed come in right around 1,200 fps. There were a number of 38/44 S&W Special loading back before WWII including a spire point metal jacketed 'metal piercing' round and a 200gr as well. Cartridges for the 38/44 were made through the 1950s but fewer and fewer different loadings were offered as the 357 Mag became dominant. S&W produced two revolvers for the 38/44 Special... the Heavy Duty which was simply a fixed sight 'N' Frame chambered for 38 Special. They also made a adjustable sight version they called the 'Outdoorsman.' HERE IS A 4" OUTDOORSMAN AND THIS IS A HEAVY DUTY HERE IS A POST WWII OUTDOORSMAN WITH 6" BARREL Colt's made their large frame New Service Revolver in 38 Special for use with the 38/44 but were not willing to use the S&W nomenclature for the cartridge... Colt's simply market their New Service as 38 Special. Colt's also advertised their 'Offical Police' revolver could be used with the 38/44 ammo. Ammo was made by all the major cartridge companies... I think the most rare would be that made by United States Cartridge Company, which was bought by Winchester around 1935 and the brand went away. The Heavy Duty and Outdoorsman both have developed considerable following and in recent years they have come quite pricey... and unusual examples bring large premiums. FWIW Chuck Yes, the 520s are nice but if you want a "poor man's" 520, check out the availability on Gunbroker of HD .38/44s, the predecessor to the Model 20 and the 520. While not a magnum, in its day it shot the Heavy Duty .38 which was a 158 grain bullet at 1,125 feet a second.
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Post by CXM on Jul 12, 2017 8:54:30 GMT -5
Just added some photos to the previous post...
V/r4
CHuck
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