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Post by rob52 on Aug 10, 2017 11:36:56 GMT -5
I’m going to introduce a little variety in the discussion about home defense shotguns. Almost everyone talks about their 12 gauge Remington 870, their Benelli M2, etc, etc. For years, ever since 1979 or 80, I’ve had a Mossberg 500 pump 12 gauge, 8 shot, 18.5 inch barrel. Always reliable, took abuse at 3 gun shoots, wasn’t cleaned often enough to meet some people’s ideas, but it didn’t complain (unconditional love). I bought it at a literal fire sale—the gunshop had a fire the night before and was selling guns at great discounts on 4X8 sheets of plywood on the sidewalk and street. Ahhh, the good old days! A couple of years ago my shoulder just wasn’t up to taking a 12 gauge beating anymore. So I bought a gently used Mossberg SA-20 tactical with pistol grip. This 20 gauge holds 5+1, 7+1 with the mag extender. The Winchester or Federal #3 or #4 buckshot rounds will get done whatever I need done if I do my part—I’m pretty certain of that. Follow-up rounds are certainly faster than with the 500 pump/12 gauge. I have found the SA-20 to be 99.9% reliable and easier to use than the 500. A lot of folks are advocating the return to 9mm from the 40 cal or 45 cal. The 9mm is a gentler, easier to handle round than either the 40 or 45. Hopefully, if the shooter does their part, the initial and follow-up rounds will be on target. In much the same way as the argument goes for the 9mm, I think that a good 20 gauge will take care of the vast majority of shooter’s needs, and might just do it better. Anybody (with an old shoulder with rotator cuff problems  ) with a different idea? Rob PS Improvements in bullet technology have improved expansion of the 9mm round, if I understand things correctly. Thus, a relatively small bullet can rapidly become a large bullet after impact, negating some of the arguments in favor of a big bullet such as a 45. |
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Post by Carolinaman on Aug 10, 2017 12:15:16 GMT -5
Hello Rob, I went with the no longer manufactured Stoeger M-2000 several years ago. It is based on the Benelli design and is recoil operated vs. gas operated. So far and so good as I can see. Over the years, I have done a bit of research on shotgun loads. I know a lot of us "older" folks really like the 20 gauge because it is perceived to be lighter recoiling, but picking on lighter 12 gauge loads really put you in the same ball park.... If you get a chance, than I would suggest that you pick up the books on "Shot guns and Shotgunning". I learned a heck of a lot from them. (And I am not that bright). Folks like the 870 and Mossberg 500 because of their reliability, but without practice may "short stroke" the pump. I decided that a semi-auto was the best way to go and I have owned both models of the previous mentioned shotguns. Mileage and experience may vary, but I also keep a tried and true 1947 Crescent Arms double barrel as well....  Best, Chris |
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Post by CXM on Aug 10, 2017 12:25:40 GMT -5
There is certainly nothing wrong with the Mossburg shotgun... it is simply the old Smith & Wesson shotgun re-branded... it was a good gun back when and it is a good gun now...
FWIW
Chuck
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Post by HRFunk on Sept 13, 2017 10:38:42 GMT -5
The idea of opting for the 20 gauge in place of the 12 gauge was actually floated in law enforcement circles a few years ago. The idea being that, with height and weight restrictions being a thing of the past, more officers could effectively employ the 20 gauge. I don't know of any large agencies that issued the 20 gauge guns, but the whole notion seemed to spur the development of the "Tactical" 12 gauge loads. In this case, "Tactical" means nothing more than a reduced power (thus reduced recoil) load. Even so, I don't think you are "underarmed" with your 20 gauge. People are even using .410 shells for defensive applications these days!
Howard
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Post by Carolinaman on Sept 13, 2017 11:55:22 GMT -5
Hello Howard,
I agree with you! Load selection has a lot to do with "perceived recoil" in shotgunning. I have played with shotguns for the past 35 or more years and have engaged in the whole point of going to lighter weight shotguns to carry in the field. By the way, I really incredibly am terrible when shooting them! (Don't bother asking about my Golf game). Last year, I picked up a couple of copies of Micheal McIntosh's books on "Shotguns and Shooting". He opinion ed that the 12 was as good as the 16 and 20 when loaded correctly and the author really knew what he was talking about from his experiences as both a author, world class shot gunner and a major contributor to "Shotgun Magazine". I have owned semi-auto's, SXS and O/U's over the years that I used in the shooting sports. Today, to me the term "tactical" just means being able to hit your target and neutralize the threat.
Chris
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Post by HRFunk on Sept 14, 2017 9:55:00 GMT -5
Hello Howard, I agree with you! Load selection has a lot to do with "perceived recoil" in shotgunning. I have played with shotguns for the past 35 or more years and have engaged in the whole point of going to lighter weight shotguns to carry in the field. By the way, I really incredibly am terrible when shooting them! (Don't bother asking about my Golf game). Last year, I picked up a couple of copies of Micheal McIntosh's books on "Shotguns and Shooting". He opinion ed that the 12 was as good as the 16 and 20 when loaded correctly and the author really knew what he was talking about from his experiences as both a author, world class shot gunner and a major contributor to "Shotgun Magazine". I have owned semi-auto's, SXS and O/U's over the years that I used in the shooting sports. Today, to me the term "tactical" just means being able to hit your target and neutralize the threat. Chris The cynical side of me believes the term "Tactical" is what you apply to any ordinary object after you paint it flat black and double the price! Howard |
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Post by Carolinaman on Sept 14, 2017 11:05:13 GMT -5
Hello Howard, So true my friend! As I age, I am definitely getting "low speed and high drag" as well! However, in my personal HD shotgun; I keep military "00" buck Winchester/Olin 12 gauge ammo loaded. If I have to use it, than recoil is going to be the last thing floating through my mind. Chris |
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Post by HRFunk on Sept 18, 2017 7:16:19 GMT -5
Great minds think alike! I have the same ammo loaded in the 870 next to my bed. Howard |
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Post by Carolinaman on Sept 21, 2017 9:25:43 GMT -5
Hello, Yes, I "used" to have a Remington 870 next to the bed, but traded it out for some work on my son's car when he was working and going to college. I eventually replaced it with the Stoeger M-2000. Great minds think alike! I have the same ammo loaded in the 870 next to my bed. Howard While I miss the 870, I can't cry too much about it. I can't even imagine the number of shotguns that I have owned over the years! Chris |
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Post by HRFunk on Sept 21, 2017 12:35:14 GMT -5
There is an 11-87 sitting in a gun shop about a mile from my office that has been calling to me. $499 with a rifled barrel. The only downside are the 'dimples" in the magazine to prevent the installation of an extended mag tube. Still, it would give me a winter project gun!
Howard
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Post by craig on Sept 22, 2017 10:26:51 GMT -5
I would urge anyone considering spending over $500. on a shotgun to consider/tryout a Saiga, Molot,or Vepr, Russian, magazine fed AK action 12 gauge. I have owned pump & semi auto shotguns & prefer my Saiga to them all, for the following reasons:
*RECOIL seems lighter to me & others who've tried it, even with the stock folded - held by fore end & pistol grip.
*FAST LOADING - insert magazine & cycle bolt simple. preferable IMO to keeping a loaded traditional tube fed handy, or loading under pressure.
*VERSATILITY - has scope/ optical sight mount on receiver, can be fired folded, easily stored. can be used for sport or home defense.
Not trying to tell anyone what to do or like, but I am so tremendously pleased with the total performance of my Saiga 12C, that I felt sharing my experience would be helpful.
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Post by Carolinaman on Sept 22, 2017 10:50:45 GMT -5
Hello craig,
I have owned the Saiga 12 gauge and sold it to a coworker. It's his favorite shotgun. They have jumped hugely in price over the past several years, but they are stellar performers.
Chris
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) with a different idea?
