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Post by jaypee on Aug 11, 2017 18:47:07 GMT -5
Another really good choice for a 9x19mm is the S&W M39-x pistol IMHO, the M39 has the best ergonomics ever in a pistol... of course that may just be how it fits me, but I really like the M39... I bought my first M39 when stationed on Guam... back then the BX sold them for about $79.00. The B52 crews bought a lot of them for use as carry pistols in place of the very much under powered S&W Model 15s ( problem was not the gun or the caliber, rather the ammo the AF provided... 130gr full jacket at something like 750fps!!!) The PX sold all the S&W M19s they could get at $97.50, in part because they would fit in the issue leather gear... in addition, they sold masses of 1911s and Colt's Commanders.  This M39 came from a police agency and was issued to a big wig who kept it in his safe... it was like new in the box when I got it. FWIW... Chuck Now that's not fair. You just want to see a grown man cry!! I bought one in '68 for $82.00 and foolishly sold it. JP |
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Post by ruber on Aug 11, 2017 20:33:01 GMT -5
Very nice, and I like the stories!
I'm a big fan of the first gen Smiths. It was actually a broken 59 firing pin that drove me to this inquiry.
As much as I liked these guns, getting parts started becoming a pain. So I started looking into new production guns for a daily shooter that I didn't have to worry about.
But that's also a problem.... Every time I try out something new, I'm always comparing it to older HP's, S&W first gens, or Swiss Sigs.
Very nice 39 there, definitely one of my all time favorite 9's!
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Post by CXM on Aug 12, 2017 7:47:54 GMT -5
A Swiss SIG is always a nice choice... a SIG P210 is an amazing pistol and then some... The quality of a P210 is the best I have ever encountered in a production military pistol...  A while ago I had the opportunity to buy a P210 and was able to acquire some accessories through the good offices of a friend in Switzerland... Unfortunately, the 210 is a bit on the pricey side... but Top Gun Supply still has a few Swiss Police surplus P210s at a reasonable (for a 210)price. The slides on these guns feel like they run on ball bearings... talk about smooth... The 210 has a definite family resemblance to the French army autos of WWII... but is a much finer gun in a reasonable cartridge.  The 210 also has a 'podium' type site somewhat like those used in the Canadian built Inglis High Power of WWII.  Having the Swiss national cross roll stamped on the slide is a nice touch... Anyway, the P210 carries well, but for the most part is too expensive to actually carry... I have carried mine a few times, but while not really a good choice for carry, it is a magnificent gun to shoot... When I posted the photo of the S&W M39 I forgot about this example... a 'pinto' version... This 39-2 is a pretty rare bird... not often seen  Finally, if you need a part for a S&W M59 try LSG. They were a S&W repair center when S&W still had independent shops... www.lsgmfg.com/ The owner Frank Smith is a real old time gunsmith who can fix things and has a lot of S&W Parts. FWIW Chuck Very nice, and I like the stories! I'm a big fan of the first gen Smiths. It was actually a broken 59 firing pin that drove me to this inquiry. As much as I liked these guns, getting parts started becoming a pain. So I started looking into new production guns for a daily shooter that I didn't have to worry about. But that's also a problem.... Every time I try out something new, I'm always comparing it to older HP's, S&W first gens, or Swiss Sigs. Very nice 39 there, definitely one of my all time favorite 9's! |
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Post by ruber on Aug 12, 2017 9:43:25 GMT -5
As always, fantastic collection you have there Chuck!
I grew up in a household with a 210, so I'm not sure if it is the actual quality of the gun, nostalgia, or both, but one in nice condition like yours is certainly my grail gun. They were already a "bit pricey" by the time I started buying my own guns.
Thanks for the info on the SW parts. I'm still kinda at a crossroads, deciding whether to invest in parts caches for my older guns or get something new with good parts availability.
I mentioned the M59, it has been relegated to the safe on more than one occasion. Problem is, load it with heavy, subsonic hollow points and it is the most accurate auto I've owned. The SA trigger and reset on mine is better than any other factory DA pistol I've owned too. So it's hard to put it away for long.
Thats one of the reasons thinking about a new CZ scares me a bit. I know after the first few trips to the range, I'm going to want $300+ worth of CZC and Cajun goodies put in it....
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Post by CXM on Aug 12, 2017 14:16:50 GMT -5
We have both a CZ and several M59s as well as M559s and 659s. The Smiths are IMHO better guns... though the CZ is good too. I'd bet Frank Smith has the part you need for the S&W... and he is GOOD at what he does... I bought a S&W Pre M14 at a gun show with a split forcing cone for $100. I found a S&W .32S&W long barrel at S&W and a .32 cylinder somewhere or another and he managed to fit them both to the M14 frame and the result shoots like a real M16... and the price was reasonable too... I know you didn't ask for advice, but FWIW I'd get the S&W fixed... it will not only save money but you will have the satisfaction of owning one of the first 'wonder nines' as well. FWIW Chuck As always, fantastic collection you have there Chuck! I grew up in a household with a 210, so I'm not sure if it is the actual quality of the gun, nostalgia, or both, but one in nice condition like yours is certainly my grail gun. They were already a "bit pricey" by the time I started buying my own guns. Thanks for the info on the SW parts. I'm still kinda at a crossroads, deciding whether to invest in parts caches for my older guns or get something new with good parts availability. I mentioned the M59, it has been relegated to the safe on more than one occasion. Problem is, load it with heavy, subsonic hollow points and it is the most accurate auto I've owned. The SA trigger and reset on mine is better than any other factory DA pistol I've owned too. So it's hard to put it away for long. Thats one of the reasons thinking about a new CZ scares me a bit. I know after the first few trips to the range, I'm going to want $300+ worth of CZC and Cajun goodies put in it.... |
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Post by ruber on Aug 16, 2017 13:17:59 GMT -5
Ya.... I've been thinking on it. Had a birthday and was looking at different 'treats', but I really enjoy shooting the old S&W's and Brownings the most.
I think I'll invest a bit in some of my older guns and just keep an eye out for parts and parts guns as they show up.
At 30 oz, that 59 really is a enjoyable range gun. Think I'll order up a couple sets of springs, firing pins, and decock/safety levers.
Thanks all, and keep shooting!
-Chris
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Post by ruber on Feb 5, 2018 13:49:31 GMT -5
First off, I really like my M59. I replaced the firing pin, springs, and decocker/safety. It's cleaned up nicely and comes out with my Hi Power when the whole family makes it to the range.
When I wrote the original post, I didn't really know what I wanted. I tried out a bunch of 9's at my range, went shooting with my brother in law a bunch. Finally realized what I was looking for was something cheap, durable, that I could shoot well, and that I could get friends or coworkers shooting well too.
Along the way, a very new looking 92FS kinda fell in my lap. Atrocious trigger, but no wear and cheap. After a cleaning, lube, and a couple boxes of range ammo, the trigger had improved a lot, enough to get me to revisit my thoughts on what I wanted.
So back to the drawing board. I took all kinds of measurements, including trigger pull weight and length from backstrap to trigger at rest, take up, break, all the way back, and reset. One thing that really surprised me was how similar'at rest' dimensional measurements were for my M59, CZ 75's, Sig 226, and 92FS. The big differences I saw were in the distance from the end of take-up to the trigger break, the actual distance over which the squeeze of the trigger happens in slow fire. This was absolutely shortest in my 1911s and Hi Powers, but for DA pistols, my M59 and 226 came in with the shortest 'length to break', the CZ 75's came in the longest, and the 92FS in between, but closer to the shorter end of the scale.
This got me thinking more, because I really like the triggers of the M59, 226, and Hi Powers, even if the pull weight is much higher than other guns.
So, I headed to town on the CZ's and Beretta to work on not shortening that distance, but cleaning it up and getting the smoothest sear/hammer engagement. I wanted whatever was going to be my new range gun to be cheap, reliable, and safe, so no aftermarket parts, no changing of geometry, no shortening/fitting of hooks or sear, just cleaning up the mating surfaces. Now they are both right at about 4.5 lbs with factory springs (I want to run .22 kits reliably on both). The SP01 is a much longer pull, but both are equally as smooth now.
And both are getting great accuracy with standard targets at appropriate distances, provided I do my part.
Anyway, it's been a hoot testing these out, I even got my BDM thrown in the mix. It had a longer take up, heavier pull weight, but a 'length to break' to the 92FS.
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Post by Carolinaman on Feb 6, 2018 0:32:05 GMT -5
Hello Chris, Great write up! It's a great comparative analysis between all of the handguns that you have mentioned above! Gosh, I really do enjoy reading this "real world" stuff! I get most of my purchasing ideas from posts like yours.  OK, dang! I need to stay out of the LGS for awhile...  Chris |
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Post by ruber on Feb 6, 2018 20:49:46 GMT -5
Thank you Chris!
It was a fun experiment, and probably told me more about myself and what I need to work on than the guns.
It was interesting for me to see that the Sig with the lightest trigger and shortest.reset, which felt really good handling and dry firing, was still not what I easily shot well because of the length of sear engagement travel. I say ‘easily’ because if I really put effort into grip and focus, the sig was pretty accurate.
I put together a spreadsheet of measurements. I have a few more dupes I want to add in, especially older HP’s and surplus guns, then I’ll post an update.
Good luck staying out of the shops... ;$
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Post by donp326 on Feb 10, 2018 18:29:54 GMT -5
Here is my CZ-75 pre B that is it is a Czech police trade in. Attachments:
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Post by ruber on Feb 10, 2018 19:51:50 GMT -5
Very nice! That’s on my short list. If I ever do find one in a local shop, it won’t be in the case when I leave.
Thank you for sharing!
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