|
|
Post by Carolinaman on May 22, 2017 6:23:40 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by ranger566 on May 24, 2017 10:06:47 GMT -5
Unless I'm missing something, the article says they bought 3,000 P229 models.
|
|
|
|
Post by CXM on May 24, 2017 10:56:24 GMT -5
New Jersey seems to have lots and lots of problems with guns their police buys... First the H&K P13s then another gun which escapes my mind at the moment, and now this...
Makes you wonder if the malfunction is New Jersey, not the makers?
FWIW
Chuck
|
|
|
|
Post by Carolinaman on May 24, 2017 13:10:54 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by CXM on May 24, 2017 13:26:16 GMT -5
It is decidedly strange that only NJSP is having problems with the SIG 229s... at least I have not heard of any in other states.
Perhaps SIG has addressed the issue that there is no problem with carry ammo but it happens with training amm... unfortunately we don't know the brand of either category of ammo.
I'm reluctant to blame SIG for the problem without more info... nor am I willing to say NJSP is blameless without more info...
One thing I do know is the fact all my SIG P229s work like charms... in 9x19; 357SIG and 40SAW... of course I keep them clean, greased ready to go.
FWIW
Chuck
|
|
|
|
Post by noglock on Jul 3, 2017 7:35:23 GMT -5
I hope those who learn of additional information will keep this updated as more information becomes available. There are always two sides to these stories and the media often does not get it right. They also seem to drop their coverage before the final chapter.
It would be interesting to learn what the training ammunition happens to be since Sig seems to be blaming the failure on the training round. Sig says the duty round works fine. As a matter of fact, it would be interesting also to learn what the duty round happens to be. Maybe CXM could test them both for us in his P229s.
|
|
|
|
Post by CXM on Jul 3, 2017 9:47:41 GMT -5
The training ammo is Speer 124gr FMJ. v/R Chuck I hope those who learn of additional information will keep this updated as more information becomes available. There are always two sides to these stories and the media often does not get it right. They also seem to drop their coverage before the final chapter. It would be interesting to learn what the training ammunition happens to be since Sig seems to be blaming the failure on the training round. Sig says the duty round works fine. As a matter of fact, it would be interesting also to learn what the duty round happens to be. Maybe CXM could test them both for us in his P229s. |
|
|
|
Post by noglock on Jul 3, 2017 14:56:17 GMT -5
I would not think such training ammunition would be a problem. I wonder if the duty round is CCI (ATK) also. I believe New Jersey used to carry Federal during the P7 days. Federal was Federal then. They are part of ATK now as well.
I do think Sig has not been wise in making so many kinds of spin off versions of their original successful versions. One of the stories I saw on this stated the extractor was different on the tested P229 than the delivered P229.
|
|
|
|
Post by trooper on Jul 7, 2017 18:18:45 GMT -5
I would not think such training ammunition would be a problem. I wonder if the duty round is CCI (ATK) also. I believe New Jersey used to carry Federal during the P7 days. Federal was Federal then. They are part of ATK now as well. I do think Sig has not been wise in making so many kinds of spin off versions of their original successful versions. One of the stories I saw on this stated the extractor was different on the tested P229 than the delivered P229. I've seen quite a few problems with training ammunition over the years. Law enforcement bean counters often go on the cheap for training ammo, with remanufactured stuff being used quite a bit. A problem with training ammo is certainly a possibility depending on what's being used. Combine that with the fact that most cops are like a monkey f***ing a football with their guns and you have a high probability of issues. |
|
|
|
Post by CXM on Jul 8, 2017 8:28:12 GMT -5
There are departments that buy training ammo on the basis of what is the cheapest... which in a way makes sense... some buy ammo that surplus to a department's requirements and is bought by a retailer who then re-sells it to other agencies... mostly works fine... but... Reloaded ammo is fine... IF you know who makes it and know they do it right... I suspect the problem is New Jersey, not the ammo... V/r Chuck I would not think such training ammunition would be a problem. I wonder if the duty round is CCI (ATK) also. I believe New Jersey used to carry Federal during the P7 days. Federal was Federal then. They are part of ATK now as well. I do think Sig has not been wise in making so many kinds of spin off versions of their original successful versions. One of the stories I saw on this stated the extractor was different on the tested P229 than the delivered P229. I've seen quite a few problems with training ammunition over the years. Law enforcement bean counters often go on the cheap for training ammo, with remanufactured stuff being used quite a bit. A problem with training ammo is certainly a possibility depending on what's being used. Combine that with the fact that most cops are like a monkey f***ing a football with their guns and you have a high probability of issues. |
|
|
|
Post by mark75h on Jul 8, 2017 21:20:10 GMT -5
I would not think such training ammunition would be a problem. I wonder if the duty round is CCI (ATK) also. I believe New Jersey used to carry Federal during the P7 days. Federal was Federal then. They are part of ATK now as well. I do think Sig has not been wise in making so many kinds of spin off versions of their original successful versions. One of the stories I saw on this stated the extractor was different on the tested P229 than the delivered P229. I've seen quite a few problems with training ammunition over the years. Law enforcement bean counters often go on the cheap for training ammo, with remanufactured stuff being used quite a bit. A problem with training ammo is certainly a possibility depending on what's being used. Combine that with the fact that most cops are like a monkey f***ing a football with their guns and you have a high probability of issues. That's what I read too. Lots of nonstandard parts, different guns submitted for testing than what was delivered. Sig messed this up over and over. |
|
|
|
Post by trooper on Jul 8, 2017 21:55:51 GMT -5
Sig has been courting us pretty heavily of late. We're in the process of choosing a new duty pistol and I'm on the evaluation team. The P320 has been an excellent performer and is a strong contender. It's either going to be the P320 or the latest iteration of the Glock 17. On the other hand, Sig equipped our SWAT Team with new rifles and several of them arrived without firing pins. A fellow shooter bought three Legions and the finish absolutely stank on these supposedly Tier 1 P Series pistols. I think it's obvious where the company is focusing most of their energy right now.
|
|
|
|
Post by noglock on Jul 17, 2017 23:31:56 GMT -5
I was not aware any large departments or agencies used other than high quality ammunition for training in semi-auto pistols. There was a time the thinking was train with duty ammunition. I believe that to be the best course to follow. You then duplicate the recoil impulse and failure rate.
I know some departments have switched to FMJ for training so they are not paying a premium for the JHP duty round. I believe the same bullet weight and velocity should be specified. If the duty round is some sort of non-standard or LE only loading; the FMJ should be special run to match the recoil impulse.
Using a cut rate FMJ or JHP for training is a mistake in my view. If the failure rate of FMJ or other than duty quality JHP is greater than that of the duty round I think there is an ammunition problem. I would have a tendency to agree with the Sig public statement absent some offer of proof to the contrary.
The extractor interface is with the rim diameter and the extractor groove. Now there could also be a different coefficient of friction in removing the fired case from the chamber for one or more of a variety of factors.
|
|
