|
|
Post by HRFunk on Jun 28, 2017 19:54:32 GMT -5
Ok, ok, you guys have me thinking about reloading the 9mm again. I do not, however, wish to reload it with one of my current presses, so I'm considering my first progressive. The Lee Pro 1000 is available from MidwayUSA for around $175. Does anyone have any experience with one?
Howard
|
|
|
|
Post by CXM on Jun 29, 2017 10:47:35 GMT -5
I'm not a fan of Lee in general... Lee products work, but not terribly well or for a really long time... their customer service can be quite uneven... some have no problems some have bad problems.
On the old S&W forum a guy posted about his problems with Lee customer service and their rude treatment. It got quite a bit of interest and lots of negative posts re Lee. At some point someone must have brought the discussion of Lee to Richard Lee's attention and as a result he posted a rebuttal... which no one seemed to buy and more people joined in the criticism... eventually Lee had so many people mad from his responses he ultimately had to apologize and make the problem right to the original customer.
His rude and nasty responses left me cold on Lee... though we hear quite a few people say they are happy with Lee support.
I have a few of their die sets, for cartridges I load in very small volume and not very often... they work ok, but the quality is clearly inferior to the big name dies... of course they are also about half the price of the name brands... you get what you pay for.
I would absolutely avoid the Lee powder measure and scales... Redding is absolutely the way to go for those items. Dillon measures are great for Dillon products...
If it were me I had start out with Dillon, RCBS or Hornady... with Dillon being the clear first choice. Dillon and the others do cost more than Lee... but it is well worth saving up to get the better equipment... you can expect to get a lifetime of reliable use out of Dillon etc.
No doubt others have had different experiences and views... I think my grandfather is right... he used to say 'only rich people can afford to buy cheap goods."
FIWI
Chuck
|
|
|
|
Post by gt40doc on Jun 29, 2017 11:46:53 GMT -5
I agree 100% with Chuck. I have limited experience with lee products(dies), and have not been overly pleased. Let me say that the Lee Factory Crimp Die has worked just fine for my bottle neck brass(30 luger, 38-40, etc.) because it is a collet type crimp die, and not a taper crimp. I purchased a complete die set from Lee for 30 Luger, and was very unhappy. The inside of the sizing die looked like it was finished with a rat-tailed file!! Anyway, that set of dies were replaced with RCBS, and they are working 100%. Perhaps I just got unlucky with my set of Lee Dies.....I won't buy them again.
I started out many moons ago with a Lyman turret press. That press made "tons" of good ammo. I still have it, and use it, for small quantities of ammo, or working up loads. A number of years ago I purchased a Dillon 650 with a casefeeder. Expensive.....yes, but the "Rolls-Royce" of presses, with a NO BS Lifetime warranty!! Their folks are 100% customer oriented, and truly stand behind their product!! My 650 can produce 600 rounds/hour with no problem.....more if I really pushed it, but I take my time and enjoy handloading. Granted, it is easy for me to spend your money!!
As far as progressive presses, in my opinion, the Dillon and the Hornady LNL are the only two I would consider. You get what you pay for here, and a used Dillon is worth 80-85% of what it cost new....maybe more. Everyone is different, so you pays your money, and you makes your choice!!
|
|
|
|
Post by HRFunk on Jun 29, 2017 11:54:59 GMT -5
I'm not a fan of Lee in general... Lee products work, but not terribly well or for a really long time... their customer service can be quite uneven... some have no problems some have bad problems. On the old S&W forum a guy posted about his problems with Lee customer service and their rude treatment. It got quite a bit of interest and lots of negative posts re Lee. At some point someone must have brought the discussion of Lee to Richard Lee's attention and as a result he posted a rebuttal... which no one seemed to buy and more people joined in the criticism... eventually Lee had so many people mad from his responses he ultimately had to apologize and make the problem right to the original customer. His rude and nasty responses left me cold on Lee... though we hear quite a few people say they are happy with Lee support. I have a few of their die sets, for cartridges I load in very small volume and not very often... they work ok, but the quality is clearly inferior to the big name dies... of course they are also about half the price of the name brands... you get what you pay for. I would absolutely avoid the Lee powder measure and scales... RCBS is absolutely the way to go for those items. Dillon measures are great for Dillon products... If it were me I had start out with Dillon, RCBS or Hornady... with Dillon being the clear first choice. Dillon and the others do cost more than Lee... but it is well worth saving up to get the better equipment... you can expect to get a lifetime of reliable use out of Dillon etc. No doubt others have had different experiences and views... I think my grandfather is right... he used to say 'only rich people can afford to buy cheap goods." FIWI Chuck Thanks for the reply Chuck. I'm one of the folks who has had pretty good luck with Lee products. Theirs are about the only dies I buy these days, and they work quite well for me. I've had the occasion to use their customer service to get some custom made parts, and that has gone smoothly and their prices are reasonable. I have used one of their turret presses for years. It is not as refined as some other brands, but it also costs about half of what they do. So based upon those experiences, I don't shy away from their products. Some, I will admit, are a little odd (like their case-trimming tools). I have one of their older hand priming tools and it has worked well for 20 years. I recently purchased one of their newer ones (so I wouldn't have to change trays between the use of large/small primers), I don't think the newer one is quite up to the same standard of quality as the old one, but it works well enough. The idea of setting up a progressive press for one cartridge, and just cranking the handle when I need some ammo is appealing to me. I won't be trading in my Rock Chucker for precision rifle ammo, but I'm leaning toward the Pro 1000 for practice pistol ammo. Howard |
|
|
|
Post by Jäger on Jun 29, 2017 12:34:39 GMT -5
Howard, I have never used nor seen one of those Lee progressives, and I don't know anybody who has. So I can't comment on whether they're a real deal, or something that down the road leaves you wishing you'd bought something else.
Some of Lee's products are GREAT. Their collet dies for some calibers as one example - serious Lee Enfield shooters who understand that rifle's supposed headspace issues as one example. The tapered case mouth expander also gets a lot of use when putting a false shoulder on brass before fire forming (or wanting to properly set up new .303 British brass for first firing). I also find Lee's universal decapping die and pass through resizing dies get a lot of use. Their general reloading equipment... a case where my experience with it has been that "inexpensive" equals "cheap quality". I tried saving money by sticking with Lee for a while, and then just accepted that some of their stuff was great, but most of it was substandard to the rest of the industry.
Given that, I would be wary of going progressive with a Lee. For progressives, I really do think it is hard to beat the Dillon presses - what's your time worth?
My first pistol reloading was back in the '70s for .38 Spl and 9mm on a Rockchucker. Got a bit faster when the Rockchucker was replaced by a Co-Ax, but not much. Didn't take long to realize the time required for the rounds produced was ridiculous. I couldn't afford a Star progressive press, and then along came Dillon. I went progressive with one of the early 550s. The 550 will do any pistol or rifle ammunition you want to load, for about $200 more than the Lee press. I felt the enhanced abilities offered by the XL650 was well worth moving up, and something like 20 years ago I did just that. My 550 held it's value well (as they do today), so that was an easy step up. At the time I was single and posted to a crappy place with not much to do other than competitive shooting and hunting sod poodles, and the XL650 was cranking out about 30,000 rounds for quite a few years. Runs as well today as it did the first day I unboxed it. Nothing has broken yet, but I'm sure something will sooner or later.
I would suggest you look at the Dillon 550 if you are serenely confident that you'll be fine with that for life. If you aren't sure, grit your teeth a little bit and buy an XL650 with the case feeder. I reload .38 Spl, 9mm, 40 S&W, 10mm, .303 British, and 5.56 on mine - over the last 20 years stepping up to the XL650 has saved me a LOT of hours to spend instead doing something else. And that extra station in the tool head is something I constantly appreciate.
The difference in cost has paid for itself many, many times over. Being able to crank out thousands of rounds in just one evening is something I really appreciate. And if I decided to never reload again tomorrow, I have no doubt it would get immediately snapped up for a very good price if put on the market.
The Lee might well be a great buy on a very reliable machine. But a Dillon has a long reputation of being reliable and utterly bulletproof.
Lots of neat aftermarket tweaks and improvements available for the Dillon presses as well...
|
|
|
|
Post by drunkenpoacher on Jul 2, 2017 11:33:21 GMT -5
I use a Hornady LNL and I'm happy with it. Hornady customer service is as good as it gets, once you buy a press they will replace anything you manage to break free of charge.
I have no personal experience with other progressives.
My local gun dealer has a Lee 1000 that someone gave him because they couldn't get the priming system to work, a common complaint.
He told me after a good cleaning and a little adjusting it has worked flawlessly.
All the brands have a learning curve, your first 2000 rounds will probably take longer to load then the next 10,000.
One common theme I get from reviews and comments on progressives is KEEP IT CLEAN.
A progressive press is "must have" equipment if you load handgun rounds IMO.
|
|
|
|
Post by CXM on Jul 2, 2017 11:49:26 GMT -5
One of the problems with using basic equipment is it does work... just not fast or elegantly... As a result people don't realize what they are missing.
For years and years I used a single stage Lyman press... it worked well, made good ammunition... but slowly... but as long as I didn't use anything else all was well... Then one day I walked into a re-loading store that had a Dillon 550b set up... they invited me to try it out and showed me how it operated... then I got to try it... before I realized what had happened I had loaded 100 rounds of .45acp... DUH!!! What had I been missing... I saved my nickles, dimes etc. until I could buy a Dillon set up... after that I never looked back and ammo supplies never got very low again...
People who have not used a progressive don't know what they are missing...
Lee works... sort of... but not very fast and not very easily.
All I can say is if you can find a way to try out the presses you are considering that would be a very good thing... unfortunately stores that let you try are few and far between... something that is unfortunate...
Good luck with your search...
V/r
CHuck
|
|
|
|
Post by gt40doc on Jul 2, 2017 14:07:59 GMT -5
Chuck,
To me, single stage reloading presses are like peanut butter..........peanut butter is great until you try STEAK!!! Then you have something to compare it to. As I mentioned, I still use my old Lyman turret press on occasion, but it is a CHORE, and soooo slow, compared to the 650. Even though I am retired now, time is still a valuable commodity to me, and I try not to waste it.
I enjoy handloading. It is a great, productive hobby for me. I just moved it up to a level where it is more productive, and more fun. I like the satisfaction of taking someone's discarded brass cases, and producing quality, shiny, new ammo.....at a reduced price(frugal). Win-win!!
|
|
|
|
Post by trooper on Jul 28, 2017 17:32:17 GMT -5
The Lee turret press is a good buy and a solid press, I've used one for years, but anything above that in the Lee catalog is crap. Choose a Lee progressive and you'll spend more time trying to get it to function than loading actual ammunition. If you desire a progressive do yourself a favor and get a Dillon.
|
|
