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Post by tnorris on Sept 28, 2023 19:14:14 GMT -5
Hello everyone,
I need some assistance answering a question, for a Facebook user not from the US, and perhaps I will learn something...
He has a Browning marked 3rd Quarter 1955 pistol which appears to have a Chrome or Nickle finish. Because the extractor appears to be blued, the barrel appears to be black and the grips seem to be from a later period, I was thinking the chrome/nickle/silver finish was an aftermarket re-finish.
Were factory Chrome/Nickel pistols offered in this 1955 time period? Is the finish original or aftermarket on this particular pistol?
The owner sent me a YouTube video that claims to have received a batch of mixed Chrome and Nickel imports via Century Arms which were listed incorrectly as Alloy or Stainless Steel. The example in the video is FN marked and is pre 1960 as far as I can tell. The photography makes it difficult to date.
Thank you all for your assistance and all the information I expect you will offer!
Two photos are attached below for your amusement and discussion...
Cheers, Tim
* Examining the pictures more: The *N on the barrel does not match the *R on the frame and slide. I am guessing it was replaced in 1959 or later. I am pretty sure the frame date code is 1955.
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Post by ToddSig on Sept 28, 2023 20:09:33 GMT -5
Hey Tim. Saw your response on the FB page as well. As far as I know, Browning did not offer an HP in hard chrome until the early 1980s. I have a Browning commercial HP with serial number 80492, just a few hundred after this example. It is blued. I date mine to 1958 based on the serial number, with 80,001-85,276 being the range for 1958. My small date marks parts are dated from 2nd, 3rd and 4th quarter 1955. Pretty much the same as this example. What I like about the pre 1958 HPs is the roll mark is St Louis only, no Montreal, which came about around 1958 to 1959.The Browning website (if you can believe it) states serial numbers starting in 1958 were becoming more accurate. The barrel should have a serial number on it, but on the opposite side of the ejection port. The owner should check that. If I recall, Vanderlinden mentions somewhere that most of the controller of the proof marks should be the same, but not in all cases. I checked a Browning catalog I have dated 9/1958. There are only two options for Hi Powers, the Standard, which is blued, and the engraved Renaissance. Keep in mind, in the 1950s Browning really was just getting started for commercial imports and sales and options were limited. I dont think they were doing Browning contracts sales which was left to FN, only the commercial sales of the Standard and Renaissance. My 1958   Image of HP page from 9/58 catalog showing offerings.  |
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Post by cmdrcody on Sept 29, 2023 9:15:09 GMT -5
I think they had to be chromed/nickel plated after market. Someone offered me a nickel plated 1917 P08 Luger the other day. I’m damn sure DWM didn’t make it that way. My wife was already complaining about my 5 recent HP acquisitions, so discretion was the better part of valor leaving a 0 series P38 on the table it would have been $3999 😱
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Post by tnorris on Sept 29, 2023 10:57:54 GMT -5
I date mine to 1958 based on the serial number, with 80,001-85,276 being the range for 1958. My small date marks parts are dated from 2nd, 3rd and 4th quarter 1955. Pretty much the same as this example. What I like about the pre 1958 HPs is the roll mark is St Louis only, no Montreal, which came about around 1958 to 1959. The Browning website (if you can believe it) states serial numbers starting in 1958 were becoming more accurate.
Good morning Todd,
I think we sorted it out last night, thanks to your confirming information. The owner is in Mexico. I sent him a link to this page so he would be able to join in the discussion if he chooses to.
I, too, was under the impression that it wasn't until the '80s that the BHP was offered in hard chrome. Thank you for confirming that... until we learn something different! I would love to know more of the story on the Century Arms imports and why they all came to the US as chromed pistols. My guess is refurbishment and beautification of surplus pistols.
I also wonder, given the production date discrepancies between the serial numbers as listed on the Browning site and the date codes on the pistols, if the serial number date range reflects when the pistols were acquired or sold by Browning in the US, rather than the date the pistols were produced in Belgium.
Thanks again for you help. Perhaps we will have all of the answers one day!
Fun translation note from Spanish to English... it appears that whatever word barrel is in Spanish translates to cannon in English!
Cheers, Tim
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Post by ToddSig on Sept 29, 2023 11:11:15 GMT -5
Although more of a parallel comparison, the High Powers from the Argentine contracts for the Buenos Aires police, manufactured in the early 1960s and then later imported into the US. Vanderlinden states "Original pistols feature the typical FN rust blue finish, many surplus pistols were finished in the US with either a phosphate finish or painted finish". Perhaps the same thing happened with CAI surplus, or they were refinished in batches before shipping to the US.
Also, I would not put much faith in the YouTube video and what CAI reports, as the narrator mentions, CAI was selling them as stainless, when they are hard chromed. So either CAI was misrepresenting, misinformed when purchased or did not now what they had.
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