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Post by ToddSig on Dec 2, 2022 21:06:25 GMT -5
15. Triple K
Triple K is an aftermarket magazine manufacturing company. They make a budget-priced pre-ban magazine that is roughly made (image 60 - Thanks to the fumegator for pics). Image 60 Markings: Marked "Browning Hi-Power 9mm" vertically along the right side. Thick black finish similar to lacquer with a rough weld seam along the back of the magazine (image 61). Pinholes visible along roughly ground weld seam. Hard plastic baseplate tapered from 3/16" in front to 5/16" in back with single locking bump. Black plastic two-legged follower similar to Mec-Gar but crudely molded. The magazine appears to be a modified Beretta 92 magazine. Image 61 Known Problems: Rough follower needs to be deburred before gun will feed reliably. Triple K will only replace pre-ban mags with post bans. Magazines may not load certain types of ammunition (Winchester 115gr FMJ) due to insufficient interior length. Individual magazines may also not lock into pistol due to out-of-spec location of mag catch on some magazines (1.110 inches from top for Triple K compared to 1.070-1.085 for a sample of factory mags - Thanks Joeseph!). Mag follower sticks and/or nosedives and dumps rounds. Mag bodies are routinely out-of-spec. Confidence: 9 reports Recommendations: Pass on these - three different reports of mags not fitting into guns with a nine mag sample probably bodes poorly for other Triple K mags. Out of the nine reports submitted, not one magazine has worked without substantial modification and four of them were totally unsalvageable. I'd personally buy USA before these and would not take them as a gift.
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Post by ToddSig on Dec 2, 2022 21:14:56 GMT -5
16. USA
USA (Disassembled view, image 62) is almost universally reviled by gun owners for the substandard quality of their magazines and this carries over to the Hi-Power as well. Image 62 It was actually difficult to find a sample for the FAQ since most people had learned to shun USA products long before I began this effort. So, I purchased my own USA mag to verify if these rumors were fact or myth. The magazine was exceedingly rough. Tooling marks are plainly visible through the finish (image 63). Image 63 There is evidence of some pitting (on a new mag!) that has been finished over. Cuts are not always square and the feed lips are slightly uneven. There is a rough seam along the back of the magazine. The finish is a thick black paint-like finish that seems to stay sticky for years. The magazine does not drop free even with the magazine disconnect removed. After more testing (+300 rds), the USA mag continues to feed without problems. However the USA mag follower will not engage the slide stop on the last round. Markings: No logos marked. Two large drain/witness holes (image 64) on front of mag (although second hole is too low to be of use as a witness hole). Image 64 Strange baseplate crimped down in two pieces (image 65). Image 65 Small gap visible looking down on top front of baseplate. Seam has been sanded down and painted over but pinholes and finish irregularities show in a straight line along the seam (image 66). Image 66 Tooling marks and minor pitting visible on most magazine edges (image 67). Image 67 Black plastic follower with long single blade (image 68). Image 68 The floorplate that contains the stud that connects with the baseplate will be much wider than normal - almost the entire width of the magazine. Known Problems: Made by USA - This company cranked out a ton of magazines prior to the 1994 ban and the emphasis on quantity over quality shows in practically all their products (as evidenced by people who still have large stocks of unsold USA pre-94 inventory seven years later). Follower-binding and other serious feed problems reported by others - no problems yet with sample mag. Magazines are not drop-free. Magazine follower will frequently fail to engage slide stop. The USA mags are also made out of extremely poor quality steel. The sample mag shows burring and deformation practically any place it contacts the harder steel of the Hi-Power. After about 600 rounds, the mag catch has been enlarged (image 69) and cracks are beginning to develop along the weld seam (image 70) in back where the slide contacts the magazine. See Tips & Hints for suggestions on how to enhance USA reliability. Image 69 Image 70 Confidence: Over 100 reports (not all Hi-Power mags though) + sample mag available. Recommendations: Not recommended at any price.
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Post by ToddSig on Dec 2, 2022 21:17:32 GMT -5
17. Western
These mags appear to be constructed of somewhat thinner metal than the OEM mags (image 71) and have a rough weld seam up the center of the spine. The base plate was metal with the spring-loaded button retainer in the center. The finish was an even matte blue-black. Feed lips felt a little flimsy while loading. Loaded mags did not drop completely free in BHP with magazine disconnect. Image 71 Markings: Seam visible on back. Design appears very similar to factory mags; but no markings. These mags are similar enought to factory mags that it is possible many are being reported as factory mags. We're looking to acquire a verifiable Western mag for close comparison to a facotry mag to show the differences - so email me if you want to sell! Known Problems: Follower binding, soft steel and misfeeds on two reports. No positive reports on these mags yet; but Western is rarely seen (possibly because they are confused with factory mags). Confidence: 2 reports. Recommendations: These magazines are fairly rare on the market for pre-94 mags. The consensus to date has been that these are range use only mags at a good price (less than $15)
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Post by ToddSig on Dec 2, 2022 21:20:52 GMT -5
18. Unidentified Mags
This section is reserved for mags with easily identifiable markings that cannot be traced to a particular manufacturer or category. UI #1 has been identified. Many thanks to Nolan! UI #2: This mag is with an old T-series Hi-Power but is not original. Appears to be a standard 13-rd factory mag in all respects. Markings: On the back of the Mag there is a Q or O inside a diamond lightly stamped at the bottom Aprox 3/8" up from the floor plate. Update: Sean writes in to tell us he was able to examine a batch of these mags at the local dealer. "The "0" or "Q" inside of a diamond is actually a partially stamped "8". One magazine out of the three I examined had the "8" properly stamped while the other 2 were only partial. No witness holes of any sort. The finish appeared to be parkerized with blued baseplates. The back of the mags had a brushed finish with no weld seams same as the Mec-Gars, however, the FRONT of the mag bodies had the same brushed finish. One mag had a very battered catch, so the metal may be a little on the soft side. The dealer told me they were British but I have no conclusive proof though." Known Problems: None reported Confidence: 2 reports UI #3: This magazine (image 72) was sold over the web as a ProMag 13rd Hi-Power magazine. It is a pretty unusual design I have never seen before. A real rough look (image 73). About 300rds through it with no issues so far although the weld by the mouth of the mag appears weak. Thanks to Rob for bringing it to our attention. Image 72 Image 73 UI #4: This mag was sold on ebay as a "high quality Wilson-made 13 round magazine" but is likely not Wilson. Thanks to Frank for the report (he has promised a follow-up range report and pictures too). Markings: They are all black, with a black plastic follower and metal base plate (flush fitting, supposedly 13 rounds). The only witness/drain hole is on the FRONT of the magazine, about a quarter-inch above the magazine catch hole. There is a very rough seam up the back of the magazine. It came in a small, clear zip-lok style baggie with no markings. Seems to insert and eject fine from my BHP. Known Problems: Loaded 13 rounds into one of them - partway through, it seemed like the follower was stuck, as I could tip the magazine over and a couple rounds actually fell out! I worked the follower up and down a bit and it seems to have smoothed out, and is holding 13 rounds fine now Confidence: 2 reports
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Post by ToddSig on Dec 2, 2022 21:21:37 GMT -5
19. Tips and Hints on Preban Magazines
A reader writes in with a tip for Ramlines. Gene notes that you can drill out the rivet for the follower spring in Ramline magazines and replace the follower with aftermarket preban followers and springs to get a reliable 13-14rd mag for the Hi-Power.
On KRD mags - I removed the old follower and spring. Then I installed a new plastic follower (after grinding off about a 1/4 inch or so) and a new spring, not as strong as the original. When this is all back together, you get a mag that holds 16 rounds, loads a lot easier and works fine. Thanks to Don
Followers from 10rd magazines will work in KRDs but reduce capacity by two. Followers from CZ75 magazines work in KRD mags also. Thanks to Harold.
If someone is really stuck for a mag - S&W 69 series mags can be altered to function - standard 15 rnd mags will need a new higher mag catch cut in and will stick out from the bottom of the mag well about 1/2 an inch. Lips may need adjustment and a new follower would be needed for hold open on last shot. Thanks to FOURN6.
K487 writes in with a tip on how to improve the reliability of USA mags. About 3 years ago I bought 4 30-rnd mags (I think they are good 'ol USA mags) from CDNN (Abilene TX 800-588-9500) for $7 each, figuring they would need some work (too cheap a price even though I didn't know about USA mags at the time). CDNN advised they had bought a bunch. Well, they didn't work worth a nickel, so I started fiddling with them. They work almost perfect now and I want to pass on what I did -
A. I cut the legs on the plastic follower down to about 1/4" each, and cleaned any burrs off - makes them more horizontally flexible.
B. I was keeping the mags stored and fully loaded. After a few months I'd use them shooting and discovered the springs were weak and not feeding well at all. I then stretched the springs and put them back in and loaded the mags and let them set for a couple of months - same problem.
Through some research, last month I purchased a 3-pack of Glock 31/33 round magazine springs (stock number 969-000-076) from Brownells (800-741-0015) for $18.49 plus $3.70 1st class USP shipping. They fit the mags perfectly with the following tweaking:
1. The curl in the end of the spring that pushes against the follower needs a little bending to keep if flush/level with the outside spring wire (so it sits evenly under the follower)
2. The curl in the end of the spring that pushed against the follower also needs a little squeezing with pliers to reduce its diameter to fit nicely inside the 4 follower legs.
That's all, but note that the springs are REAL strong and take some muscle to bend. Lastly, I VERY lightly oiled the inside of the mag well sides AND when loading my S&B JHP put about 1/2 drop of light oil on my index finger, spread it to my thumb and middle finger, then loaded about 10 - 15 cartridges, then reoiled my finger(s) for the rest. This of course reduces friction and the S&B ammo has the primer sealed (with red "paint" around it,) and with this little amount of oil I figured it would almost never seep into the cartridges through the bullet/casing seal. I've only fired the 3 repaired mags once each (30 rounds/mag,) and had one failure to feed on one magazine (quite a total improvement in the "junk" magazines.) I would NOT recommend them for self-defense unless FULLY tested and of course their extended length is an awkward tactical problem. CDNN still sells these for $10 each now (probably paid $2 each when they bought the batch.) Still, for under $20 (mag and Glock spring) we can now have highly reliable 30-rnd mags for shooting fun.
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Post by ToddSig on Dec 3, 2022 11:41:32 GMT -5
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Post by ToddSig on Dec 3, 2022 12:05:34 GMT -5
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Post by ToddSig on Dec 3, 2022 12:42:16 GMT -5
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Post by ToddSig on Dec 3, 2022 13:03:30 GMT -5
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Post by ToddSig on Dec 3, 2022 13:20:03 GMT -5
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Post by ToddSig on Dec 3, 2022 15:02:02 GMT -5
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Post by ToddSig on Dec 3, 2022 16:00:35 GMT -5
Mags from Recent Hi Power ClonesTisas Regent BR9, supplied with Mec-Gar 13 and 15 round Hi Power compatible mags Girsan MC P35, supplied with Mec-Gar 13 round Hi Power compatible mag Springfield Armory SA-35, supplied with one 15 round Springfield logo branded Hi Power compatible mag. The Patent number on the magazine, 5,386,657 is assigned to Mec-Gar. Below, Springfield Armory logo marked Mec-Gar magazine
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Post by CXM on Dec 4, 2022 7:43:51 GMT -5
Great stuff Todd... thanks for the good work!
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Post by Bob Reed on Dec 4, 2022 9:46:23 GMT -5
Thanks a Million Todd, for such excellent, informative information.
Very well done, Sir!
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Post by ToddSig on Dec 4, 2022 14:49:18 GMT -5
Update 1. Browning MagsFrom the time the Hi Power Magazine FAQs were compiled a lot of additional information has been researched and published. Anthony Vanderlinden has some great info on Hi Power mags in his 3rd edition, volume 1, page 326 he writes "Starting in 1946, FN produced new magazines and several changes were introduced: the split tail clip style floor plate release was dis- continued and a push button release was introduced. The wartime practice of bluing the magazine body was retained, the phosphate magazine body was not reintroduced. Black enamel finish on the floor-plate was an early postwar option, as was black enamel on the magazine body. Many of the military contracts had the magazine body stamped with FN's year code (see page 199), the code year marking served as FN's final factory or internal proof.
FN introduced new changes in the 1963-1965 period. Aluminum followers were replaced with black synthetic and the rust blue finish was replaced with salt bluing which gives a bright blue appearance.
included chrome and chrome variants like matte chrome, satin chrome, etc. These specialized finishes (not shown) were used on special pistols and their magazines.
FN introduced the extended 20-round magazine in the early 1970s. It featured a blue floor-plate with phosphate magazine body. Original FN magazines can be identified by the metal notch that is stamped out of the magazine body. The notch makes contact with the magazine well and provides a more positive lock without play. Aftermarket 20-round magazines lack this feature. Posting Note: Mec-Gar 20 round magazines also have the metal notch, see previous post on Mec-Gar 20 round mags for images. FN started to outsource the High Power magazine to the Italian firm Mec-Gar in the (late) 1980s. The magazine body is marked "Made in Italy" but the features remained classic FN, this has led to speculation that only the magazine bodies were initially made by Mec-Gar. This changed in the 1990s where the entire magazine was made by Mec-Gar and marked "ITALY' CAL. 9 MM NATO/LUGER". These magazines feature view-holes on the side or spine of the magazine body. Mec-Gar magazines also have a raised (pinched) floor-plate release button while FN magazine buttons were always flat.
One way to tell if you have a Browning manufactured mag or a Me-Gar OEM mag is to look at the push button released on the baseplate. If flat, Browning production, if notched Mec-Gar. Also, if the baseplate front has crimped cuts, either Browning or FEG production, if not cuts, Mec-Gar (see images below). Some images of Browning manufactured and Browning OEM Mec-Gar produced magazines. Split Tail baseplate, discontinued by +/-1946. Replaced with flat push button release, see below image. Baseplate button releases. Left, flat button Browning production, Right, notched button, Mec-Gar production, Aluminum follower, pre 1963/1965 Browning production mags. Plastic follower, post 1963/1965 Mag on the left is a T series with black body, production marked 1968. Mag on the left, has a grey/green tint, production marked 1970 (my best guess as it is a poor mark and hard to read). From my observations, sometime in the early 1970s and prior to Mec-Gar OEM mags, FN used this grey/greenish tint mag, no witness holes, no markings (other than some earlier mags which may have a production date mark). These appear to be very similar to FEG mags of the 1980s and 1990s, so use caution when identifying, as they are hard to tell the difference. First Mec-Gar OEM magazines for Browning. Per Vanderlinden, late 1980s. No other marks, most early one without witness holes. Second version of the Mec-Gar OEM Hi Power mags, with "ITALY CAL. 9 MM NATO/LUGER" markings, witness holes on back of tube body Six Browning and Mec-Gar OEM magazines. Top row, left to right, Pre 1946 (aluminum follower, split tail base), post 1946 (aluminum follower, push button release), post 1963/1965 (plastic follower) Bottom row, left to right, Mec-Gar OEM mags, first version (Made in Italy markings), second Version ("ITALY CAL. 9 MM NATO/LUGER" markings), contemporary options (mouse trap spring, rubber bumper pad) Current Browning packaging for 9mm Hi Power mag, mouse trap and rubber bumper pad. Mec-Gar production
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