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Post by saden on Nov 8, 2022 20:26:04 GMT -5
Hi, new Hipower owner. There's a few things on mine that I haven't really seen online.
It's a surplus, but I have no idea from where. Very well used, with a 1990 serial number. But the serial number has three prominent marks, and that's on each serial number besides the one put on for import. On the barrel foot there's an M with a 5 pointed star above it, and an oval shaped sigil that I can't really make out. Maybe a P|V? Any of you guys have answers?
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Post by saden on Nov 8, 2022 20:28:57 GMT -5
Forgot to throw on the pictures. Attachments:
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Post by ToddSig on Nov 8, 2022 21:01:31 GMT -5
Saden, welcome to HPC, and congratulations on your new surplus High Power. The marks are as follow, the *M is an inspector mark, in this case in related to Maurice Scorpion who worked from 1959-1968 and again 1974 to 1990. The other mark, I believe it is one of the nitro proof marks from the Liege proof house. It is probably a PV with a candlestick between the letters. Regarding the three dot punch marks on the serial number, not really sure. Serial numbers after the prefix and date letters do not have a space between, so the marks are covering part of the serial number. Perhaps as a surplus High Power, an arsenal marking to hide a digit or two of the serial number for some reason? I have not seen that before. So just guessing. Hopefully some other HPC members can shed additional light on the deliberate punch marks.  |
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Post by CXM on Nov 9, 2022 3:21:51 GMT -5
The three 'dots' were made by a punch and are not original to the gun. This sort of mark is often used to indicate a gun has had some sort of modification or update applied to a quantity of guns by armorers or arsenals... Often this is sort of thing is used to indicate a safety update has been applied to a gun as a result of recall or modification. S&W for example, put an"M" mark on early "L" frame revolvers that had been returned for a safety recall. There is a pretty good chance a well used HP was one of the surplus guns the Israeli imported about 15-20 years ago... but it is certainly not certain. That is probably the most information you will find on your HP. Can you post some pics of the gun it's self? Hi, new Hipower owner. There's a few things on mine that I haven't really seen online. It's a surplus, but I have no idea from where. Very well used, with a 1990 serial number. But the serial number has three prominent marks, and that's on each serial number besides the one put on for import. On the barrel foot there's an M with a 5 pointed star above it, and an oval shaped sigil that I can't really make out. Maybe a P|V? Any of you guys have answers? |
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Post by saden on Nov 9, 2022 8:40:07 GMT -5
Can you post some pics of the gun it's self? Sure, I have a few. The grips are completely wrong I'm pretty sure, a little too small. |
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Post by ToddSig on Nov 9, 2022 9:05:34 GMT -5
Looks like one of the transitional High Power FN contract mixed parts pistols with a combination of MkII and MkIII features/elements. Not unusual for an FN contract/surplus pistols of the late 1980s into early 1990s.
Sometimes referred to by collectors and Hi Power enthusiasts as a "MkII 1/2".
It has the rib on the underside of the dust cover in front of the trigger guard, which is typically an identifying element of the MKII 1/2 transitional pistol together with mixed elements/parts of previous models and new models. The rib is usually associated with Israeli surplus High Powers. It appears to have a MKIII slide (flat muzzle bushing) and the later larger sights on an earlier style frame with the rib, and single small safety.
The serial number on the side of the frame is a later, perhaps arsenal addition. Is there also a serial number on the front grip strap?
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Post by CXM on Nov 9, 2022 9:16:45 GMT -5
Thanks for the photos. From the photos I can tell you a few things.
I'm nearly certain the gun is one of the ex Israeli guns imported by Gary Cole in the 2000-2004 time frame. He must have bought a lot because they were available for a number of years.
The serial number seems to have been modified at some point. The Izzys captured a lot of HPs from various arab countries during the course of the various wars fought in that bad neighborhood they live in. The result of the wars was quite a few HPs came into Izzy hands in damaged or badly worn condition (you can't imagine how poor arab maintenance of weapons is unless you see it in person.) Izzy armorers took the damaged/worn guns and used them to build as many complete and serviceable HPs as they could by combining useable the parts from the bad guns. I have seen several HPs in which the Izzy armorers modified serial numbers to force match the numbers on the gun. I'm not a lawyer so I won't get into the legality of importing guns with altered serial numbers but I am fairly sure the number on your gun was altered,
undoubtedly to force match the serial numbers on the gun. The s/n on the left front of the frame is not original to the gun, though it is possible it was the original number.
If you will look at the front side of the grip it is possible you will find where the original serial number was stamped on the gun's frame. It would have been vertical.
Whilst the grips may not be original to the gun, they are the correct type for a 1990s HP made for contract sales. Most HPs in Europe made to fulfill government contracts came with the black plastic grips. It is likely the grips got changed when the gun was serviced by the Israeli armorers.
I bought quite a few of the Israeli import guns from Gary Cole when they first hit the market... he had an amazing variety of variations that had made their way to Israel over the years. There were guns marked with the crests of Jordan, Syria, Iraq, Egypt and the UAR (United Arab Republic... the short lived union of Egypt and Syria.) I got a tangent sight version made prior to WWII for the Belgian military with the original style barrel...
IMHO you have a nice gun there. I would suggest you replace the springs in the gun given it's unknown history, but otherwise it should be good to go so long as a detailed inspection does not find any problems with it. From an asthetic point of view it can be refinished in Cera-Coat or similar material and it will look new. Set it up with some Mec-Gar 15 round magazines and your HP yeilds nothing to the much vaunted Glock 19 in terms of usefulness.
Chuck
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Post by saden on Nov 9, 2022 10:20:15 GMT -5
Looks like one of the transitional High Power FN contract mixed parts pistols with a combination of MkII and MkIII features/elements. Not unusual for an FN contract/surplus pistols of the late 1980s into early 1990s. Sometimes referred to by collectors and Hi Power enthusiasts as a "MkII 1/2". It has the rib on the underside of the dust cover in front of the trigger guard, which is typically an identifying element of the MKII 1/2 transitional pistol together with mixed elements/parts of previous models and new models. The rib is usually associated with Israeli surplus High Powers. It appears to have a MKIII slide (flat muzzle bushing) and the later larger sights on an earlier style frame with the rib, and single small safety. The serial number on the side of the frame is a later, perhaps arsenal addition. Is there also a serial number on the front grip strap? Yes, it's the image in the opening post. Looking at it closely it seems as if it's stamping out a 0. |
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Post by saden on Nov 9, 2022 10:23:33 GMT -5
Thanks for the photos. From the photos I can tell you a few things. I'm nearly certain the gun is one of the ex Israeli guns imported by Gary Cole in the 2000-2004 time frame. He must have bought a lot because they were available for a number of years. The serial number seems to have been modified at some point. The Izzys captured a lot of HPs from various arab countries during the course of the various wars fought in that bad neighborhood they live in. The result of the wars was quite a few HPs came into Izzy hands in damaged or badly worn condition (you can't imagine how poor arab maintenance of weapons is unless you see it in person.) Izzy armorers took the damaged/worn guns and used them to build as many complete and serviceable HPs as they could by combining useable the parts from the bad guns. I have seen several HPs in which the Izzy armorers modified serial numbers to force match the numbers on the gun. I'm not a lawyer so I won't get into the legality of importing guns with altered serial numbers but I am fairly sure the number on your gun was altered, undoubtedly to force match the serial numbers on the gun. The s/n on the left front of the frame is not original to the gun, though it is possible it was the original number. If you will look at the front side of the grip it is possible you will find where the original serial number was stamped on the gun's frame. It would have been vertical. Whilst the grips may not be original to the gun, they are the correct type for a 1990s HP made for contract sales. Most HPs in Europe made to fulfill government contracts came with the black plastic grips. It is likely the grips got changed when the gun was serviced by the Israeli armorers. I bought quite a few of the Israeli import guns from Gary Cole when they first hit the market... he had an amazing variety of variations that had made their way to Israel over the years. There were guns marked with the crests of Jordan, Syria, Iraq, Egypt and the UAR (United Arab Republic... the short lived union of Egypt and Syria.) I got a tangent sight version made prior to WWII for the Belgian military with the original style barrel... IMHO you have a nice gun there. I would suggest you replace the springs in the gun given it's unknown history, but otherwise it should be good to go so long as a detailed inspection does not find any problems with it. From an asthetic point of view it can be refinished in Cera-Coat or similar material and it will look new. Set it up with some Mec-Gar 15 round magazines and your HP yeilds nothing to the much vaunted Glock 19 in terms of usefulness. Chuck Wow, thanks for the info. I plan on changing the springs and nothing else, I quite like the worn look of it. I doubt the serial on the left side is truly the original, from what I can see most other HI powers have a 5-digit serial after the prefix and date code, and this one only has 4. |
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Post by CXM on Nov 10, 2022 12:08:01 GMT -5
Whilst replacing the springs you might want to take out the magazine interlock to improve the trigger. Also put the three coil trigger return spring if you remove the interlock. FWIW CHuck Thanks for the photos. From the photos I can tell you a few things. I'm nearly certain the gun is one of the ex Israeli guns imported by Gary Cole in the 2000-2004 time frame. He must have bought a lot because they were available for a number of years. The serial number seems to have been modified at some point. The Izzys captured a lot of HPs from various arab countries during the course of the various wars fought in that bad neighborhood they live in. The result of the wars was quite a few HPs came into Izzy hands in damaged or badly worn condition (you can't imagine how poor arab maintenance of weapons is unless you see it in person.) Izzy armorers took the damaged/worn guns and used them to build as many complete and serviceable HPs as they could by combining useable the parts from the bad guns. I have seen several HPs in which the Izzy armorers modified serial numbers to force match the numbers on the gun. I'm not a lawyer so I won't get into the legality of importing guns with altered serial numbers but I am fairly sure the number on your gun was altered, undoubtedly to force match the serial numbers on the gun. The s/n on the left front of the frame is not original to the gun, though it is possible it was the original number. If you will look at the front side of the grip it is possible you will find where the original serial number was stamped on the gun's frame. It would have been vertical. Whilst the grips may not be original to the gun, they are the correct type for a 1990s HP made for contract sales. Most HPs in Europe made to fulfill government contracts came with the black plastic grips. It is likely the grips got changed when the gun was serviced by the Israeli armorers. I bought quite a few of the Israeli import guns from Gary Cole when they first hit the market... he had an amazing variety of variations that had made their way to Israel over the years. There were guns marked with the crests of Jordan, Syria, Iraq, Egypt and the UAR (United Arab Republic... the short lived union of Egypt and Syria.) I got a tangent sight version made prior to WWII for the Belgian military with the original style barrel... IMHO you have a nice gun there. I would suggest you replace the springs in the gun given it's unknown history, but otherwise it should be good to go so long as a detailed inspection does not find any problems with it. From an asthetic point of view it can be refinished in Cera-Coat or similar material and it will look new. Set it up with some Mec-Gar 15 round magazines and your HP yeilds nothing to the much vaunted Glock 19 in terms of usefulness. Chuck Wow, thanks for the info. I plan on changing the springs and nothing else, I quite like the worn look of it. I doubt the serial on the left side is truly the original, from what I can see most other HI powers have a 5-digit serial after the prefix and date code, and this one only has 4. |
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