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Post by bar1918a2 on Jan 28, 2022 14:40:32 GMT -5
I got some info from Tim on the FN site, and he says he put some dope on this board by I cant find it~! Now exactly literate..so how the devil do I post a photo??> I dont have an http on my desk top? Anyway here is my pistol and a holster with matching serial number, so please offer your advice as I am going to sell it out of necessity. Thanks Attachments:
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Post by tnorris on Jan 28, 2022 20:19:19 GMT -5
I got some info from Tim on the FN site, and he says he put some dope on this board by I cant find it~! Now exactly literate..so how the devil do I post a photo??> I dont have an http on my desk top? Anyway here is my pistol and a holster with matching serial number, so please offer your advice as I am going to sell it out of necessity. Thanks
I copied my earlier post here to the other forum for you. I hope you find this here or the other post there!
Photos here are limited in size to 1mb and you can only "ATTACH" three per post.
ADD ATTACHMENT on the upper right of your new message is what you want to use to add attachments such as photos. You seem to have accomplished this.
Attempting humor... wouldn't it be great if all High Power forums and sections worked the same way with 100% compatible parts???
Cheers,
Tim
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Post by ToddSig on Jan 28, 2022 23:40:06 GMT -5
Welcome to HPC Bar1918a2. I took the liberty to take a look at your posts and images over on the FN Forum. I wanted to see the holster. According to Vanderlinden's book on FN Pistols, Germany purchased many Hi Powers starting in 1951 for law enforcement use. Some went to North Rhine Westpahlia, also Munich police and Bavarian border guards.Vanderlinden states they used the Hi Powers unitl around 1965 and were replaced by P-38 pistols. The Hi Powers were taken out of service in 1969 and sold as surplus. The Hi Powers purchased were "standard production pistols with standard FN Serial numbers. The Hi Power serial number ranges of these German purchases were rather wide, between 28,000 and 60,000. Should your Hi Power fall into this German law enforcement production block, it would be one of the early ones. Here is the interesting statement by Vanderlinden, "The matching German holster is often the only indicator confirming German usage). He then shows a similar holster to yours. He calls the holster a Postwar GErman police and border guard issue. Regarding selling, condition is not great, but it is an interesting package with the serialized matching holster. Many surplus Hi Powers, although much later are now selling between $800 and $1000 on Gunbroker from dealers like Mach I. I think in the right market, you could be north of that. I purchased a customized in 1952 High Power, refinished, changes sights, hammer and safety for $800 about 6 months ago. How did you plan on selling, in a private sale in your state, dealer consignment or online auction site such as Gunbroker. Probably most upside would be on a sight like Gunbroker. If you dont wish to list yourself, you might find a dealer willing to list it for you. here is a link to an auction for a slightly later High Power, with similar holster, selling about 1 year ago for $1800 (not including commissions). Condition is much better, perhaps with a very nice original finish or an older refinish? It appears to be, from the images, a very desirable High Power given the condition. www.liveauctioneers.com/item/98004888_early-fn-belgian-browning-high-power-with-holsterHope this helps and good luck selling, although I thin you should try to find a way to keep it. Image of that sale (many additional images if you follow the above link)  I grabbed the FN Forum image link for one of your holster images  |
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Post by bar1918a2 on Jan 29, 2022 8:15:35 GMT -5
Thank you so much for this wonderful research. I never would have dug all this up on my own. And I will keep it. I have a bunch of other junk that can shake the money tree. I will try to figure out how to post a photo of the holster here so you can see for yourself. Many Many thanks~!
Francis
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Post by bar1918a2 on Jan 29, 2022 8:22:10 GMT -5
I do sell a few items on Gunbroker, and have a C&R so shipping direct to another FFL is allowed. But as I say, I will keep this fellow in the vault for the foreseeable future.
Francis -
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Post by bar1918a2 on Jan 29, 2022 8:32:43 GMT -5
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Post by tnorris on Jan 29, 2022 9:33:42 GMT -5
Welcome to HPC Bar1918a2. I took the liberty to take a look at your posts and images over on the FN Forum. I wanted to see the holster. According to Vanderlinden's book on FN Pistols, Germany purchased many Hi Powers starting in 1951 for law enforcement use. Some went to North Rhine Westpahlia, also Munich police and Bavarian border guards.Vanderlinden states they used the Hi Powers until around 1965 and were replaced by P-38 pistols. The Hi Powers were taken out of service in 1969 and sold as surplus. The Hi Powers purchased were "standard production pistols with standard FN Serial numbers. The Hi Power serial number ranges of these German purchases were rather wide, between 28,000 and 60,000. Should your Hi Power fall into this German law enforcement production block, it would be one of the early ones.
Thank you Todd!
Here is similar pistol, from 1952 with a matching holster and a name hand written inside the holster. I have left a new message for the owner. Hope he sees it.
I read through the Vanderlinden section on this last night after seeing your post. Do you have any idea who imported these to the US, and when, with no import marks? I don't know when import marks began to be required.
My 1950 pistol falls into the serial number block, but has no matching holster, ans I have made other assumptions as to how it arrived here. I suppose I am looking for more info on these!
Cheers,
Tim
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Post by ToddSig on Jan 29, 2022 19:34:43 GMT -5
Thank you Todd!
I read through the Vanderlinden section on this last night after seeing your post. Do you have any idea who imported these to the US, and when, with no import marks? I don't know when import marks began to be required.
My 1950 pistol falls into the serial number block, but has no matching holster, ans I have made other assumptions as to how it arrived here. I suppose I am looking for more info on these! Cheers, Tim
Hey Tim, I am not totally sure on these, but I have a feeling they first went to German surplus arms distributors and were sold in Germany and also I guess from the German surplus distributor to US distributors. My 1952, which had been customized and refinished has a Silesia mark on the trigger guard. I have found Silesia was a large German weapons distributor in Hanover. Others include Akah, Hege, Brigant, Geco, and Norris. I have seen some of the Akah marked High Powers, but not the others, or at least did not notice the mark. In addition to the Silesia mark on my '52 High Power, it also has a US import mark, on the base of the grip, GPGI of Harrisburg, PA. But the import marked could have been at any time. Image of Silesia mark on the trigger guard.  |
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Post by tnorris on Jan 30, 2022 0:09:14 GMT -5
Hey Tim, I am not totally sure on these, but I have a feeling they first went to German surplus arms distributors and were sold in Germany and also I guess from the German surplus distributor to US distributors. My 1952, which had been customized and refinished has a Silesia mark on the trigger guard. I have found Silesia was a large German weapons distributor in Hanover. Others include Akah, Hege, Brigant, Geco, and Norris. I have seen some of the Akah marked High Powers, but not the others, or at least did not notice the mark. In addition to the Silesia mark on my '52 High Power, it also has a US import mark, on the base of the grip, GPGI of Harrisburg, PA. But the import marked could have been at any time.
Hi Todd,
My 1950 has no import marks and no other marks I can identify. On the bottom at the rear of the mag well there are some odd marks, picture attached at the end. The other two (1950 and 1952) both have matching holsters and no import marks that I have seen so far.
Could surplus German Police pistols make their way to the US for sale without import marks in the 1965-1970?? period? I don't know. It is not a pressing question but it would be interesting to see how these arrived in the states.
Thanks!
Tim
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Post by CXM on Jan 30, 2022 5:46:56 GMT -5
Interesting photos...
I have an ex German police Astra 600 with a similar holster and the name of the officer it was issued to in the holster...
Nice gun.
Chuck
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Post by ToddSig on Jan 30, 2022 8:51:30 GMT -5
There were a lot of US servicemen in Germany at the time these surplus LE pistols came to market, perhaps purchased in Germany and brought back? That would explain the lack of marks. Also, perhaps not all of those listed German surplus distributors marked their inventory. All just guess work.
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Post by tnorris on Jan 30, 2022 9:39:44 GMT -5
There were a lot of US servicemen in Germany at the time these surplus LE pistols came to market, perhaps purchased in Germany and brought back? That would explain the lack of marks. Also, perhaps not all of those listed German surplus distributors marked their inventory. All just guess work.
This has been my guess...
Thanks!
Tim
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Post by CXM on Jan 30, 2022 14:55:07 GMT -5
In the 1960s and perhaps earlier, the U.S. Military operated Rod and Gun clubs in Germany sold firearms... mostly new of course. These were made in both the U.S. and imported into Germany by the factory authorized distributors in Germany and German made guns were also bought from local distributors (You still see S&W revolvers marked "Selisia" which was confusing until it was discovered that was the name of the S&W distributor for S&W and other brands.
The German distributors also bought surplus military firearms and wholesaled them to the Rod & Gun clubs often at quite low prices. Some of these included High Powers, P38s, Lugers, Astra 600s, Star Bs, and Mausers... There probably others as well...
FWIW
Chuck
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Post by sams1 on Jan 30, 2022 23:26:44 GMT -5
Great information, CXM! I bet most of us didn't know this.
Makes sense, then, that the OP's Hi Power came into the U.S exactly as you've described (a GI bring back).
Those were the good ol' days...
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Post by CXM on Jan 31, 2022 10:57:30 GMT -5
I would agree... almost certainly purchased by a member of the U.S. Forces and brought home when their tour in Germany ended. Calling it a "GI Bring Back" has potential to confuse people with captured arms Soldiers were allowed to bring back with them from overseas by getting a special order issued allowing the import... Though I have not seen anything on this subject published, I'd suggest we might call the R&G Club guns Overseas Military Purchases (OMP) for reasons of clarity... I'd be interested in what y'all think? Chuck Great information, CXM! I bet most of us didn't know this. Makes sense, then, that the OP's Hi Power came into the U.S exactly as you've described (a GI bring back). Those were the good ol' days... |
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