In Lieu of the Click Test for Browning Hi-Powers.

[Bob Reed]

Hello,

Recently I was asked if I'd explain a bit about the "click test" that some folks do on the Browning HP, but unknowing to my friend, I don't do a click test on the HP per se - I simply check for sear movement instead.

To safety check a Browning Hi-Power.

Unloaded gun of course. Cock the hammer, set the safety, press the trigger firmly (but NOT white knuckle tite) while looking in from the bottom edge of the firing pin retaining plate and hammer to see if the sear-nose rises. Slight movement (a few thousandths) is OK as long as the hammer's notch height and the sear's nose-thickness is considered - while taking into account if the sear has a break-away angle or not and if so, how much angle.

Now, after pressing the trigger when checking for sear movement don't touch the hammer, now disengage the safety and make sure the hammer doesn't fall and the safety hasn't become unusually stiff.

So, a few thousandths of movement on the average HP isn't a great alarm to me, but the same amount of movement on a specially prepared sear & hammer could be way too much. Of course I'd rather there be NO sear movement.

Bob

[pjk9hp]

Hi Bob, good day to you.

Please consider the following:
1. "Slight movement (a few thousandths) is OK as long as the hammer's notch height and the sear's nose-thickness is considered - while taking into account if the sear has a break-away angle or not." - Obviously this will only be for a competent gunsmith or a technical gun enthusiast to check? But how to measure them? I mean, some special measuring tools e.g. high power microscope, toolmaker's, or optical comparator to determine the items you mentioned here. If so, where can we view standard reference for these items.
2. Are there any cases where newly-opened-right-out-of-the-box, "never been fired" high/hi-powers failing the click test? Were they returned/shipped back to the distributors?
3. Was this a standard test done in FN Belgium factory before HPs were shipped out? I don't have Blake Steven's book but is the click-test mentioned therein?

Thank you and best regards...

[Bob Reed]

Hello,

Click Test is just an internet term. Neither the FN Manual or the British L9A1 Manual refers to checking for excessive clearance between the safety's nub/nib/pillar & sear as a "click test", they simply refer to it as checking the safety for excessive clearance.

FN say's to cock the hammer, engage the safety, press the trigger without excessive force, release trigger, disengage safety, push on the back of the hammer and make sure it doesn't "push off".

The British L9A1 Manual say's to check the clearance between the safety's nib and sear with a .020" Feeler Gage. If the .020" Gage will fit between the safety's nib/pillar & sear - then repair. They state .012" clearance as the Maximum Amount.

Yes, they're new-in-the-box HP's with enough clearance to allow "slight" sear movement. Slight, as in a few thousandths, and yes, these guns are perfectly safe.

Let's put a few thousandths into perspective, a sheet of copy paper is .004", a human hair is .003", a match book cover is .015" - so, let's say that you have .008" clearance and your sear rises that amount, that's not even enough to bring the sear's nose that amount (if any) above the top surface of an unmodified hammer notch.

I hope this thread is useful to all of y'all, and I hope it helps those that have discovered some slight sear movement rest a little easier knowing that FN is OK with a few thousandths of clearance - not to mention they even expect it.

Bob

[ToddSig]

Hi Bob, thanks for the informative post. It certainly clears up many questions about the "click test". Most useful and greatly appreciated.

[Bob Reed]

Thanks guys,

I'm glad y'all found the info useful.

[pjk9hp]

Jun 12, 2018 20:20:11 GMT -5 Bob Reed said:

Thanks guys,

I'm glad y'all found the info useful.

Hi Bob,

Thank you so much for your reply and clear explanation. This will definitely aid HP users to decide whether they are going to change anything or continue trusting their HPs as it is.

Regards.

[willt1]

Hello,
I am considering the purchase of an older (1952?) High Power. Then I came across the "click test" and now I have an issue. Following the instructions at the top of the page, with safety set, as I pull the trigger, viewing from between the hammer and the firing pin retainer, I see the sear nose rise very slightly, I am guessing, about a piece of paper's width (.004"?) just on the left side. I do not see any rise on the right side. Then I can not take the safety off unless I pull back on the hammer (and hear it click when I do). And when it does click, I can see the sear nose drop back down.

I never plan on carrying this gun for self defense and can not imagine ever setting the safety. Otherwise is this pistol safe?

Will post a picture in a minute.

Thanks,
William

[willt1]

Sear nose, safety set, after pulling trigger.  1952 High Power.

Attachments:

[ToddSig]

In addition to the visual check for sear movement, these are the two "click test" procedures.

1. Cock the hammer.
2. Engage the safety.
3. Pull the trigger.
4. Release the trigger
5. Pull back on the hammer like you were cocking it.
6. Did you hear a click?

and a second, similar method, accept you disengage the safety before pulling back on the hammer.

From Cylinder and Slide (referring to a 1911 click test, but appears applicable to the Hi Power)

The thumb safety should be checked first. To check the thumb safety, cock the hammer and engage the thumb safety - then firmly pull and release the trigger. The hammer must not drop. Disengage the thumb safety - the hammer should not drop. Do not touch the trigger again.

The next check is to determine if the thumb safety is holding the sear from partially disengaging from the hammer. ( I call this the click test - and remember - DO NOT TOUCH THE TRIGGER after disengaging the thumb safety.) After disengaging the thumb safety, place the hammer area of the pistol close to your so that you can hear the slightest click when you run this test. With the hammer area of the pistol held close to your ear, pull the hammer to the rear very slightly. Do not touch the hammer at all until you have placed the pistol near your ear. If you hear a very slight click when you touch the hammer this is the sound of the sear jumping back into full engagement with the hammer full cock hooks. Remember, you must engage the thumb safety, pull and release the trigger, disengage the thumb safety, holt the pistol near your ear, and then just touch the hammer slightly to the rear. If you hear a click the safety is allowing the sear to move slightly out of engagement with the hammer.

[Bob Reed]

Hello, William,

The sear is probably rising more on the left due to the sear lever's contact point being on the right-side of the sear, and when you press the trigger and take-up all the movement that's just where this one stops. The clearance between the sear and sear pin even comes into play here, and that can let the sear rises slightly more on the left due to all the pressure being applied to the right-side of the sear.

That said, a bent (or badly worn) sear pin could also be the cause. You can replace the sear pin by simply holding the hammer back, so no pressure is on the sear, while you push the old pin out with a new pin as it's being installed.

The dark area on the right-side of the searing surface in the photo (if it's not a shadow) indicates that the sear isn't making full/even contact across the hammer notch/hook. If so, this could be caused by a bent sear pin or, the searing surfaces simply aren't square - and some are not perfectly square from the factory.

However, while it's not perfect and without being able to personally examine the pistol, I do believe it's more than likely safe as is - and it's also a textbook example of slight sear movement while the safety is engaged.

FWIW: The Hi-Power that I carry has as much sear rise as the one you're looking at.

[willt1]

Oct 4, 2023 7:21:57 GMT -5 ToddSig said:

In addition to the visual check for sear movement, these are the two "click test" procedures.

1. Cock the hammer.
2. Engage the safety.
3. Pull the trigger.
4. Release the trigger
5. Pull back on the hammer like you were cocking it.
6. Did you hear a click?   YES, I HEAR A CLICK. - WILLIAM

and a second, similar method, accept you disengage the safety before pulling back on the hammer.

From Cylinder and Slide (referring to a 1911 click test, but appears applicable to the Hi Power)

The thumb safety should be checked first. To check the thumb safety, cock the hammer and engage the thumb safety - then firmly pull and release the trigger. The hammer must not drop. Disengage the thumb safety AT THIS POINT I CAN NOT DISENGAGE THE THUMB SAFETY... IT WILL NOT MOVE! - WILLIAM  - the hammer should not drop. Do not touch the trigger again. 


The next check is to determine if the thumb safety is holding the sear from partially disengaging from the hammer. ( I call this the click test - and remember - DO NOT TOUCH THE TRIGGER after disengaging the thumb safety.) After disengaging the thumb safety, place the hammer area of the pistol close to your so that you can hear the slightest click when you run this test. With the hammer area of the pistol held close to your ear, pull the hammer to the rear very slightly. Do not touch the hammer at all until you have placed the pistol near your ear. If you hear a very slight click when you touch the hammer this is the sound of the sear jumping back into full engagement with the hammer full cock hooks. Remember, you must engage the thumb safety, pull and release the trigger, disengage the thumb safety, AGAIN, I CAN NOT DISENGAGE THE THUMB SAFETY... IT WILL NOT MOVE. - WILLIAM holt the pistol near your ear, and then just touch the hammer slightly to the rear. If you hear a click the safety is allowing the sear to move slightly out of engagement with the hammer.

BUT BREAKING THE TEST RULES, IF AFTER PULLING THE TRIGGER AND THEN PULLING BACK ON THE HAMMER (WHERE I HEAR THE CLICK), THEN I CAN DISENGAGE THE THUMB SAFETY. - WILLIAM

[willt1]

Oct 4, 2023 7:36:24 GMT -5 Bob Reed said:

Hello, William,

The sear is probably rising more on the left due to the sear lever's contact point being on the right-side of the sear, and when you press the trigger and take-up all the movement that's just where this one stops. The clearance between the sear and sear pin even comes into play here, and that can let the sear rises slightly more on the left due to all the pressure being applied to the right-side of the sear.

That said, a bent (or badly worn) sear pin could also be the cause. You can replace the sear pin by simply holding the hammer back, so no pressure is on the sear, while you push the old pin out with a new pin as it's being installed.

The dark area on the right-side of the searing surface in the photo (if it's not a shadow) indicates that the sear isn't making full/even contact across the hammer notch/hook. If so, this could be caused by a bent sear pin or, the searing surfaces simply aren't square - and some are not perfectly square from the factory.

However, while it's not perfect and without being able to personally examine the pistol, I do believe it's more than likely safe as is - and it's also a textbook example of slight sear movement while the safety is engaged.

FWIW: The Hi-Power that I carry has as much sear rise as the one you're looking at.

Replacing the sear pin looks like that would be easy enough.  Can you push it out from either side using the new pin to push it?  If this pistol was indeed made in 1952, where should I buy a new pin that would be the right fit?

Thanks to both you and Todd for the guidance
William. 

[Bob Reed]

Hello, William,

The size of the sear pin was never changed over the years, so as long as it's a BHP sear pin, you'll be fine. You can get a sear pin (Part Nr. B515559002) from the Browning Parts Department (800-322-4626 Ext. 2863) or anyplace else that sells BHP Parts.

The sear pin can be removed/installed from either direction, but I remove them from Right to Left and install from Left to Right due to the 'narrow' section on the right side of the sear where the pin's hole is located. Note: You must make sure the hammer is held off the sear while doing this, and the sear spring will be trying to push the sear forward, so you need to keep some finger pressure against the sear to off-set the sear spring's forward force.

With the grip panels off the frame, put a piece of masking tape around the backstrap and through the opening in the grip frame and have the tape snugly going across the sear spring well above where the grip screw holes are in the frame. This keeps full spring tension off the sear while it's being installed and will greatly help when just sliding in a new pin like what you're planning. Use caution though, because the leverage point on the sear spring is its tip that's touching the sear and the other point being the frame where the spring contacts it midway- up ahead of the grip screw holes - so don't accidently bend the sear spring just above its resting pad on the frame's backstrap.

Good Luck,

[ToddSig]

Bob's method of sliding the pin out with the new pin is a great idea and makes the job simple. It can be a bit troublesome installing a new sear and holding/position the sear spring and sear in place. But only replacing the pin, per Bob's instructions is pure genius.

For new pins, in addition to Browning, any of these sellers should have them in stock. 

Mid West Gun Parts www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/prod/B515559002
BH Spring SOlutions bhspringsolutions.com/   I only saw them selling the sear pin with another pin, so you might wish to call
Numrich/Gun Parts Corp www.gunpartscorp.com/products/474310

Since shipping will cost more than the pin, think of other spare parts you might wish to purchase.

You might wish to use the failed click test as leverage to reduce the asking price.

[willt1]

Bob and Todd,

Thanks again for all the information. I will order one ASAP.


William