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Post by Bob Reed on Oct 15, 2020 10:35:49 GMT -5
Hello, Presumably, all the Mk II High Power Pistols had an extended barrel bushing, and 'most' of the C Series had it as well. So, let's try to figure out the exact timeline that the large, extended barrel bushing went into production on the C Series, and, when it's use ended on (or with?) the C Series High Power. All the Mk II Hi-Power Pistols I've ever seen has an extended barrel bushing, and it appears it's use ended with the Mk II's production in 1988, and my own 1988 produced Mk II has the pronounced barrel bushing. FWIW: The model years of my personally owned Hi-Powers following my '88 Mk II is a Mk III that was produced in 1991, and it has the typical, flusher fitting bushing - no surprise there, since the pronounced bushing apparently ended with the Mk II, but maybe it still helps in establishing a timeline. Ironically, in 1970, when FEG started producing their High Power clone, the P9 a.k.a. the PJK-9HP later on to most Americans, they also used the same style, extended barrel bushing as on the FN C Series High Powers in question, except all the FEG barrel bushings that I remember, had a sharper inner-edge on it's face (like a cookie cutter) whereas the FN bushing has a radius face (but it seems like the FN bushings use on the earlier C Series had a sharper edge as well). So, this fact alone is a 'clue' that FN had probably started using the barrel bushing in question in 1970, or possibly late in 1969, later than the '69 C Series that belongs to a member here on the forum, because his 1969 C Series does not have the extended barrel bushing. The last C Series that I serviced was made in '72, and I'm 99.9% sure I remember it having a large, pronounced barrel bushing with a sharper edge on it's face than the later produced C Series and Mk II barrel bushing's, like what's common on all the Mk II's that I've seen, including my own 1988 Mk II. I suspect the extended barrel bushing was created to add some protection to muzzle's crown, which is does, and I personally favor the Mk II Barrel Bushing over the flusher fitting bushings. How about you? And, last but not least, when did FN stop using the extended barrel bushing on the C Series High Power? Steve Camp wrote in his FAQ Section; What is the difference between Mk II and Mk III Hi Powers. Quote: [The non-removable bushing extends out slightly more than on Mk III pistols. Classic Hi Powers made from the mid-70's until the Mk II was introduced did as well]. www.hipowersandhandguns.com/What%20are%20the%20differences%20between%20the%20Mk%20II%20and%20Mk%20III.htm
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Post by Mister Coffee on Oct 15, 2020 11:48:18 GMT -5
Good post, Bob. But it needs pictures, don't you think?
My ca. 1982 Hi-Power has a protruding barrel bushing. I don't have the gun here, and I cannot tell from my own crappy pictures if it is the same bushing as the Mk II.
To answer your question: I think protecting the crown with a protruding bushing is a good idea. It always makes me a little nervous when I see an unprotected barrel sticking out of the end of a gun. Same with flush-fit barrels. Maybe if I had some experience with revolvers, I wouldn't feel this way (?).
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Post by Bob Reed on Oct 15, 2020 13:18:13 GMT -5
Hello, Mister Coffee!
Yes, photos would be great, and hopefully, I'll invest in a camera and learn the skill someday...
Speaking of protruding muzzles, look at the muzzle protrusion on the CZ 75 B, which by the way, I really like the CZ 75 B and Pre-B's too. Funny that you mentioned revolvers, because other than being cautious and protecting their muzzle crowns (like I do on all guns) I never viewed them (their muzzles) in the same light when it comes to this topic. Wierd, isn't it???
MC, please hit the poll. I am curious to see what all the members think.
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Post by jonfhp40 on Oct 15, 2020 14:36:16 GMT -5
To me operationally it's a non-issue, as whicle the extended MK II bushing may provide some additional protection, my feeling is that the rounding on the end of the barrel itself on the MK IIIs is sufficient to protect from normal inadvertant hits.
Aesthetically, I prefer the MK III, as I think it looks a bit more contemporary. But that's me. Either is good.
Best, Jon
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Post by ToddSig on Oct 15, 2020 15:32:12 GMT -5
I agree with Mr C, great post Bob. Also enjoyed tpelle's post on barrel fitting. Some good and useful stuff, keep it up. I have a 71C Renaissance with a flat bushing. I have a 1988 slide with a flat bushing. I had typically heard the hog nosed bushing was introduced around 1973 and was continued until the MKIII was introduced around 1988. The hog nosed bushing was on the post 1973 C series models and the early 245/215 serialized models. With the introduction of the MKIII a new flat bushing was introduced with the new model, but still slightly raised when compared to the pre 1973 flat bushing, like on the T series models. I would like to clarify some of the differences of the Classic or Pre MKII Hi Power and the MKII Hi Power as they were manufactured together for a period of time. There seems to be some conflating between the two models. When comparing to the MKII some of the characteristics of the Classic or Pre MKII Hi Power are small sights (hump and bump style) and short single thumb safety. The Classic or Pre MKII was sold by Browning until 1989. The MKII was introduced in 1982, and differed from the Classic model by having a ribbed slide with integral front sight, wider rear sight notch, ambidextrous extended safety and a drain hole under the barrel bushing on the front of the slide. Discontinued like the Classical model when the MKIII was introduced. Also, there were some mix and match combinations, between the Classic, MKII and MKIII features. So no set rules If I have any this wrong, correct me, as I dont wish to post incorrect info. Image from 1984 Browning catalog with Classic model (two years after the introduction of the MKII) Image from a 1989 catalog showing a Classic with type B adjustable sights together with what looks like a Hybrid MKII and MKIII (sights looks small for MKIII) From a 1990 Browning catalog, showing the MKIII (new) and a Hybrid and, a hog nosed bushing part
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Post by Bob Reed on Oct 16, 2020 0:22:51 GMT -5
Todd, your post is simply Excellent. Thank You, Sir!
The bushing you photoed is obviously one with the sharp edge I was talking about, and if FN didn't use two similar bushings, I believe what I've been noticing is, some that was made to maximum tolerances, some made to minimum, some in between, and some that got de-burred real good on the buffing wheel. Or, did FN change the print on the extended bushing somewhere down the line? And in fact, wind-up with two different extended bushings? The sharp edged ones would definitely get 'dinged' easier than the more radius'ed ones...
The bushing on my '88 Mk II for example, doesn't have nearly as sharp of an edge as the one you photoed. Mine looks closer to the bushing shown on Steve Camp's site (linked above) which would resemble a hog ring, silvered soldered right to the slide -making a perfect radius from the front of the slide right into the bushing's bore (still 45° leading to the I.D., but with a nice, large radius'ed face).
Jon, I agree the Mk III bushing looks more contemporary. And, I actually use to go back-n-forth on which one I 'really' preferred, but, since The High Power has such a Mystic about it, the extended bushing oddly seems better suited to it. After all, The High Power is the most Mystical Pistol that's ever been produced - and the most beautiful, regardless of which barrel bushing was used that day.
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Post by ToddSig on Oct 16, 2020 13:16:20 GMT -5
The spare part bushing I imaged was from Numrich, it is listed as a Browning part, part who knows, could be an FEG. Perhaps it is manufactured slightly longer for fitting and machining. The bushing opening is too tight for a barrel to pass through, so definitely needs machining. I agree, the spare bushing appears closer to the FEG bushings than Browning. I took a look at a few Classic Browning Hi Power bushings, all have a more rounded or radiused extended bushing. I looked at some FEG bushings, and not nearly as sharp edged as Numrich part, but they are more sharp edged than those on the Browning Hi Powers. Interesting that the early FEG Kassnar ribbed FP9 has the flat bushing rather than the hog nosed. My Charles Daly has probably the sharpest bushing edge. FM M 90 is closesr to the Browning bushing. The Tisas clones have the flat bushing. Images below, some easy to see the differences, others not so much 1980 Browning Sport 1976 C Sport 1988 Classic, upgraded sights FEG/Kassnar FP9 ribbed, flat bushing FEG Kassnar FEG, PJK 9HP Charles Daly FM M90
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Post by Bob Reed on Oct 16, 2020 13:55:25 GMT -5
Todd, the '80, '76 and '88 are the FN-Browning bushings that pop into my mind when I hear or think about FN's extended barrel bushing. And the Numrich bushing is what pops into my mind when I hear or think about the FEG barrel bushing.
Thanks for all the photos, at least now I know I hadn't went totally crazy (yet), because I always associated the sharp edge bushing with FEG, and the more radius'ed bushing with FN.
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Post by dmac on Mar 22, 2023 4:29:43 GMT -5
Thanks for the info, good stuff !......... I have a chance to buy a Feg PJK-9HP serial # B17893...It is in real good condition in the original Box ..First question is are these quality guns ? Second , Does anyone know when this was made ?.. hard time finding anything on line... I should be able to get it for around $500-$600 .........is that a decent price ?.......THANKS !
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Post by tnorris on Mar 22, 2023 7:39:31 GMT -5
Thanks for the info, good stuff !......... I have a chance to buy a Feg PJK-9HP serial # B17893...It is in real good condition in the original Box ..First question is are these quality guns ? Second , Does anyone know when this was made ?.. hard time finding anything on line... I should be able to get it for around $500-$600 ......... is that a decent price ?.......THANKS !
We may be in the wrong thread...
when this was made ? There is an amazing wealth of information here on this forum. The pistol in question was likely made in 1985.
are these quality guns ?
They have their fans who will say they are near equals to the FN. Mine, from 1986, was likely a reject which failed it's initial quality tests. It wears two US import marks and has had some problems with poor finishing and places that are out of spec. It cost me $300 about 10 years ago. I paid too much but that was the going rate. After some gentle work with a rat tail file the safety actually works and it shoots as well as any well used FN BHP.
is that a decent price ? Hard to say... if it is nearly new in box and one of the very good ones, it is probably a good deal. If I found it in my LGS I would have to check it out and would probably try and make a deal. On the other hand... I bought a new SA-35 for less than $750 in December 2021 and a new Girsan PI for less than $600 last month. These pistols are at least equal to the FEG.
Cheers,
Tim
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Post by dmac on Mar 22, 2023 16:15:01 GMT -5
Thanks for the info Tim !.... Sorry for being on the wrong thread...I am new to participation on a Forums, actually this is the first one I have ever been on. I have no clue what I am doing !...LOL ! Thanks for being patient with me. Good business plan for someone, make a tutorial for forums and charge people to scribe to it...... I would join..! Cheers !!
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Post by CXM on Mar 24, 2023 4:29:53 GMT -5
My comment here is based solely on my experience and that of friends over the years... please keep that in mind when you read my observation re the FEG HPs. Basically, I bought my first FEG about 1994 for the princely sum of $179.00 new in box (same price I paid for a new CZ75b the same year) at a Dallas Gun Show. This was/is an excellent pistol (still have it) both in overall quality as well as one of the nicest high polish blue finishes I have seen... easily as good as FN-HP's 1960s blue finish... Mechanically it is excellent and it is accurate. The blue on the back strap has faded to gray, but still the gun looks nice overall. A couple of years later I bought a second FEG HP from the same dealer at the Dallas Market Hall gun show (James Brown) which was an absolute turkey. Finish was like it was blue in old dish water, it had one of the worst triggers I have ever encountered on any pistol. Shortly after I got it the front sight fell off. Then the trigger pin started walking after a few rounds being fired. The grips were no longer the handsome blond wood (probably beech) the first one had, having black plastic grips of indifferent quality. I was not happy with the gun. FIRST FEG HP Here is a pic of the first FEG HP... It has had a Mec-Gar rear adjustable sight added... SECOND FEG HPThe second FEG-HP after being set up with after markets in an attempt to make it work as a "normal" FEG-HP. It is now fitted with a FM Detective slide. MANUAL COVER FOR FIRST FEG_HP The second gun sat unused for over 10 years taking up space in my safe. I tried to do various things to make it work right... but it never lived up to expectations. Finally I came across a FM Detective conversion kit and installed it on the FEG. About the same time someone told me how to fix the walking trigger pin which was simple and worked well. Once the trigger pin problem was fixed and I removed the magazine interlock the gun improved... but the finish still left a lot to desired. Next I had my friendly LGS Ceracoat the FEG using a grey that pretty well simulated a Parkerized finish... Finally this gun could be considered useful. Once all this was done several friends wanted to buy it. I suppose it was destine to become a Detective model... FWIW Chuck
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