FN Mk III .40 Refurbished With BHSS Spring Set Experiences
Apr 6, 2020 14:17:21 GMT -5
Poohgyrr likes this
Post by jonfhp40 on Apr 6, 2020 14:17:21 GMT -5
My Current HIgh Power Grip Experiences and Recommendations:
I suspect that discussion grips for some of us is akin to discussing my wife's shoes and shoe selection process; intensely personal, both operationally, ergonomically and...dare I say it...emotionally/aesthetically driven.
So I'll go where wise men fear to tread-into a discussion of grips; more specifically, High Power grips.
First, the OEM FN/Browning grips: Essentially raise and dismiss items, somewhat like the OEM polymer sights on a Glock. Yes, they work. But the OWM wood grips (and their black plastic molded version, provided on FN rollmarked High Powers, and the later curved thumbrest polymer ones for the MK III guns) are relatively unergonomic, and uncomfortable. Most serious High Power users pretty quickly discard them and move to other options.
On my first Browning Hi Power, I switched first to the Uncle Mikes rubber Craig Spegel designed grips, followed by a set of custom Craig Spegel checkered Kingwood grips that Craig provided to me directly. The grain was beautiful, and aesthetically they were magnificent; but operationally they (or at least that specific set) were a bit too thin for me, and allowed my triggerfinger to protrude too far into the triggerguard; natural triggerfinger indexing on the trigger itself was awkward. I hope whomever acquired that Hi Power is enjoying, appreciating them, and fits to them better than I.
My second Browning MK III Hi Power and third (and current) FN MKIII High Power both started out with the Hogue rubber fingergroove grips. A bit aesthetically challenged (but their dull black color does integrate into the dull/non-reflectively-finished MKIII safety levers, trigger and hammer....) but operationally and ergonomically effective. Except for one thing: After years of use, and probably accumulated exposure to various cleaning and lubrication liquids, they experienced some material deterioration; not unusual to rubber-based grips over time.
So, time to move on. I've liked Hogue grips in the past, so I checked their site, and came across their "Limited Editions and Factory Seconds" room. The factory seconds are really broken down into two categories-one is products with minor flaws or non-matching sets, and the other is comprised of grips that are apparently flawless, but are a discontinued pattern, material or color. I picked up a pair of Olive/Gray checkered G10 grips for my Hi Power, and later a similar set of conventionally checkered double-diamond grips for my Colt Series 70 stainless 1911A1.
I've been exceptionally pleased with these grips. They're the right thickness for me, the ergonomics are good, and the inherently chalky texture of the G10 (plus the checkering) makes for an excellent non-slip grip, despite the bald frontstrap. Aesthetically, they're handsome and compliment the High Power nicely, at least to my eye. I had no issues wit them operationally, and secured them with a computer fiber washer on/under the screws, preventing the screws from loosening under firing vibration and backing out.
ALways being willing to experiment, however, BH Spring Solutions provided me with a set of Leon Hubert's RDIH polymer grips, who's salient features are pronounced fingergrooves on the frontstrap and vestigial thumbshelves on the upper sides. Before they arrived, I was prepared to be underwhelmed, thinking them to be a sort of a European clone/poor man's version of the Hogue rubber fingergroove grip. On arrival and installation, my opinion began to change, favorably. The fingergroves are pretty pronounced; however, they're very effective in anchoring and providing effective leverage, especially useful with .40 High Powers in recoil management and providing rapid splits.
However, as I discussed in previous posts on the threads, I felt there was room for improvement; discussing with David Barnes of VCD grips, he agreed to experimentally apply his stippling treatment to a set; BH SS provided me with a Coyote-colored set, which I felt would showcased the VCD treatment nicely.
Prior to their arrival at VCD, David was cautious; there was the risk that the grips possessed either the wrong polymer or insufficiently thick polymer for the treatment to work, but on arrival, he found them an excellent subject for the treatment. On installation, testing and operational use I find these grips to be absolutely superb, as well as being a huge value, as the total cost of the basic grips and then with the added VCD treatment is less than $60-and in my opinion you're getting one of, if not the best, particularly operationally, of the High Power grips. Essentially, the combination of the grip shape, side strakes and VCD treatment provides superb anchoring of the pistol in hand; the side strakes on the left side in a two-hand grip nicely anchor the palm directly underneath the thumb of my support hand, while the VCD stippling provides an excellent non-slip anchoring surface for the strong-hand palm and the lower back of the support hand towards the back trailing surface of the grip. On single handed shooting, the thumb resting on the strake itself (as opposed to being atop the safety lever) provides excellent lateral and steering stability-and that goes for both strong-hande only and support-hand only shooting grips.
BH Springs Solutions has developed and markets a series of walnut grips on their site, and wanted me to test several of them, which I was happy to do. Their walnut grips are both CNC milled and hand finished, and range in price from $69.95 to $74.95 for a set of the matte-finished, smooth or checkered grips, to $79.95 for the BH Signature grips (one side checkered with BH SS logo, the other with a laser-carved image of John Browning), and finally the upper-tier Legacy and Heirloom grips, which are beautifully smoothed, polished, and have multiple coats of Damar lacquer applied for preservation, sealing and durability. Finishing on both Legacy and Heirlooms is the same; the pricing differentiation/tiering is due to the representative quality of the burl graining in each grip set; set of Legacy grips is $144.95, and Heirlooms are $168.95.
In all of their grip lines, BH SS will provide grips with a lanyard cut to accommodate the OEM lanyard if desired at no additional cost.
Now here. thanks to COVID 19 shelter-in-place edicts is where the review goes into the speculative realm. Due to COVID 19, I have honestly not had any opportunity to live-fire my High Power with either of the two walnut grips BH SS has provided me, a matte walnut checkered and a beautifully finished Legacy grip set (s).
Here are the matte ones;
And the beautifully burled and finished Legacy grips;
My review of these wood grips, therefor, is at this point constrained to my feelings about their fit, aesthetics and feel in dryfire practice, as range use and matches have been cancelled for the duration.
Regarding the matte hybrid walnuts grips (the "hybrid" terminology refers to how they combine a traditional High Power grip profile with the combination of shelving with grip cross-shaping; the grip bodies aren't flat, but deliberately curved to fit the palm's profile, so that the grip is efficiently cupped by the grasping hand)-they fit and feel magnificently in the hand. The intrinsic fit on the gun is strongly derived frm their internal CNC milling; apparently these grips are optimized for the latter Mk III High Power, given my sample size of one MK III; I don't know if they'll fit as well on earlier forged-frame High Powers; hopefully they do. Draw, grasping and dryfire access and control is excellent, and the grips are quite handsome on my epoxy black-finished Mk III.
The flashy, seemingly BBQ gun-oriented looking Legacy grips look great, and initially fit nicely, but until I can operationally test them, I'm ambivalent. Here's why: In his book, "The Shooter's Guide To The 1911 Pattern Pistol, on pp. 130-133, the late Stephen Camp discusses grips in detail-including one particularly resonating example of when he put on a beautiful set of smooth Maple grips on his duty 1911, however, on a heavily raining night he belatedly discovered that when he drew the gun he had no effective grip; the rain water rendered things too slippery. When I discussed this with Mark Allen of BH Spring Solutions, the reports he's had of these upper-tier smooth grips is that their shaping effectively anchors them, but for me I'll need to vet them through actual use before I feel comfortable in recommending them as operationally viable.
So-Where do I stand grip-wise regarding the High Power (and, in my case, more specifically for a heavier recoiling, quicker pressure-spiking on ignition .40 High Power)? At this point, my first recommendation, and what's physically on my High Power, are the RDIH VCD stippled polymer grips; second choice would be the Hogue G10 grips. The BH Springs Solution's matte walnut checkered hybrid grips impress me with their feel and general shape, and I suspect will do quite nicely, but I'm hesitating to fully recommend them until I've tested and vetted them through actual use in live-fire/training/IDPA competition, all of which is on hold until May or June...
The Hogue rubber fingergroove grips are undeniably effective, but my experience with rubber grips in general is that they be viewed as a disposable item. Particularly after using them for 5 years or so, I strongly suggest removing them and carefully examining them for rubber decay and deterioration, particularly on the surfaces that engage and mate with the receiver, locking and stabilizing the grips in place.
Best, Jon
I suspect that discussion grips for some of us is akin to discussing my wife's shoes and shoe selection process; intensely personal, both operationally, ergonomically and...dare I say it...emotionally/aesthetically driven.
So I'll go where wise men fear to tread-into a discussion of grips; more specifically, High Power grips.
First, the OEM FN/Browning grips: Essentially raise and dismiss items, somewhat like the OEM polymer sights on a Glock. Yes, they work. But the OWM wood grips (and their black plastic molded version, provided on FN rollmarked High Powers, and the later curved thumbrest polymer ones for the MK III guns) are relatively unergonomic, and uncomfortable. Most serious High Power users pretty quickly discard them and move to other options.
On my first Browning Hi Power, I switched first to the Uncle Mikes rubber Craig Spegel designed grips, followed by a set of custom Craig Spegel checkered Kingwood grips that Craig provided to me directly. The grain was beautiful, and aesthetically they were magnificent; but operationally they (or at least that specific set) were a bit too thin for me, and allowed my triggerfinger to protrude too far into the triggerguard; natural triggerfinger indexing on the trigger itself was awkward. I hope whomever acquired that Hi Power is enjoying, appreciating them, and fits to them better than I.
My second Browning MK III Hi Power and third (and current) FN MKIII High Power both started out with the Hogue rubber fingergroove grips. A bit aesthetically challenged (but their dull black color does integrate into the dull/non-reflectively-finished MKIII safety levers, trigger and hammer....) but operationally and ergonomically effective. Except for one thing: After years of use, and probably accumulated exposure to various cleaning and lubrication liquids, they experienced some material deterioration; not unusual to rubber-based grips over time.
So, time to move on. I've liked Hogue grips in the past, so I checked their site, and came across their "Limited Editions and Factory Seconds" room. The factory seconds are really broken down into two categories-one is products with minor flaws or non-matching sets, and the other is comprised of grips that are apparently flawless, but are a discontinued pattern, material or color. I picked up a pair of Olive/Gray checkered G10 grips for my Hi Power, and later a similar set of conventionally checkered double-diamond grips for my Colt Series 70 stainless 1911A1.
I've been exceptionally pleased with these grips. They're the right thickness for me, the ergonomics are good, and the inherently chalky texture of the G10 (plus the checkering) makes for an excellent non-slip grip, despite the bald frontstrap. Aesthetically, they're handsome and compliment the High Power nicely, at least to my eye. I had no issues wit them operationally, and secured them with a computer fiber washer on/under the screws, preventing the screws from loosening under firing vibration and backing out.
ALways being willing to experiment, however, BH Spring Solutions provided me with a set of Leon Hubert's RDIH polymer grips, who's salient features are pronounced fingergrooves on the frontstrap and vestigial thumbshelves on the upper sides. Before they arrived, I was prepared to be underwhelmed, thinking them to be a sort of a European clone/poor man's version of the Hogue rubber fingergroove grip. On arrival and installation, my opinion began to change, favorably. The fingergroves are pretty pronounced; however, they're very effective in anchoring and providing effective leverage, especially useful with .40 High Powers in recoil management and providing rapid splits.
However, as I discussed in previous posts on the threads, I felt there was room for improvement; discussing with David Barnes of VCD grips, he agreed to experimentally apply his stippling treatment to a set; BH SS provided me with a Coyote-colored set, which I felt would showcased the VCD treatment nicely.
Prior to their arrival at VCD, David was cautious; there was the risk that the grips possessed either the wrong polymer or insufficiently thick polymer for the treatment to work, but on arrival, he found them an excellent subject for the treatment. On installation, testing and operational use I find these grips to be absolutely superb, as well as being a huge value, as the total cost of the basic grips and then with the added VCD treatment is less than $60-and in my opinion you're getting one of, if not the best, particularly operationally, of the High Power grips. Essentially, the combination of the grip shape, side strakes and VCD treatment provides superb anchoring of the pistol in hand; the side strakes on the left side in a two-hand grip nicely anchor the palm directly underneath the thumb of my support hand, while the VCD stippling provides an excellent non-slip anchoring surface for the strong-hand palm and the lower back of the support hand towards the back trailing surface of the grip. On single handed shooting, the thumb resting on the strake itself (as opposed to being atop the safety lever) provides excellent lateral and steering stability-and that goes for both strong-hande only and support-hand only shooting grips.
BH Springs Solutions has developed and markets a series of walnut grips on their site, and wanted me to test several of them, which I was happy to do. Their walnut grips are both CNC milled and hand finished, and range in price from $69.95 to $74.95 for a set of the matte-finished, smooth or checkered grips, to $79.95 for the BH Signature grips (one side checkered with BH SS logo, the other with a laser-carved image of John Browning), and finally the upper-tier Legacy and Heirloom grips, which are beautifully smoothed, polished, and have multiple coats of Damar lacquer applied for preservation, sealing and durability. Finishing on both Legacy and Heirlooms is the same; the pricing differentiation/tiering is due to the representative quality of the burl graining in each grip set; set of Legacy grips is $144.95, and Heirlooms are $168.95.
In all of their grip lines, BH SS will provide grips with a lanyard cut to accommodate the OEM lanyard if desired at no additional cost.
Now here. thanks to COVID 19 shelter-in-place edicts is where the review goes into the speculative realm. Due to COVID 19, I have honestly not had any opportunity to live-fire my High Power with either of the two walnut grips BH SS has provided me, a matte walnut checkered and a beautifully finished Legacy grip set (s).
Here are the matte ones;
And the beautifully burled and finished Legacy grips;
My review of these wood grips, therefor, is at this point constrained to my feelings about their fit, aesthetics and feel in dryfire practice, as range use and matches have been cancelled for the duration.
Regarding the matte hybrid walnuts grips (the "hybrid" terminology refers to how they combine a traditional High Power grip profile with the combination of shelving with grip cross-shaping; the grip bodies aren't flat, but deliberately curved to fit the palm's profile, so that the grip is efficiently cupped by the grasping hand)-they fit and feel magnificently in the hand. The intrinsic fit on the gun is strongly derived frm their internal CNC milling; apparently these grips are optimized for the latter Mk III High Power, given my sample size of one MK III; I don't know if they'll fit as well on earlier forged-frame High Powers; hopefully they do. Draw, grasping and dryfire access and control is excellent, and the grips are quite handsome on my epoxy black-finished Mk III.
The flashy, seemingly BBQ gun-oriented looking Legacy grips look great, and initially fit nicely, but until I can operationally test them, I'm ambivalent. Here's why: In his book, "The Shooter's Guide To The 1911 Pattern Pistol, on pp. 130-133, the late Stephen Camp discusses grips in detail-including one particularly resonating example of when he put on a beautiful set of smooth Maple grips on his duty 1911, however, on a heavily raining night he belatedly discovered that when he drew the gun he had no effective grip; the rain water rendered things too slippery. When I discussed this with Mark Allen of BH Spring Solutions, the reports he's had of these upper-tier smooth grips is that their shaping effectively anchors them, but for me I'll need to vet them through actual use before I feel comfortable in recommending them as operationally viable.
So-Where do I stand grip-wise regarding the High Power (and, in my case, more specifically for a heavier recoiling, quicker pressure-spiking on ignition .40 High Power)? At this point, my first recommendation, and what's physically on my High Power, are the RDIH VCD stippled polymer grips; second choice would be the Hogue G10 grips. The BH Springs Solution's matte walnut checkered hybrid grips impress me with their feel and general shape, and I suspect will do quite nicely, but I'm hesitating to fully recommend them until I've tested and vetted them through actual use in live-fire/training/IDPA competition, all of which is on hold until May or June...
The Hogue rubber fingergroove grips are undeniably effective, but my experience with rubber grips in general is that they be viewed as a disposable item. Particularly after using them for 5 years or so, I strongly suggest removing them and carefully examining them for rubber decay and deterioration, particularly on the surfaces that engage and mate with the receiver, locking and stabilizing the grips in place.
Best, Jon