bl
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Posts: 9
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Post by bl on Oct 10, 2023 9:17:23 GMT -5
Hello all. I just bought a Hi Power. It was at the top of my wish list and I found one for a good price at a gun show and couldn't help myself.. I wanted to find out when it was manufactured so I went to the Browning site and looked at their serial number page and the serial number on mine doesn't seem to match any on the page. They number stamped on the frame, slide and barrel of mine is 289585. Unless I'm reading the web page wrong, all the serial number that start with a 2 are supposed to be preceded by the letter "T", mine isn't, it's just those six numbers. The slide is stamped FN Browning on the other side but I can't seem to fine any other hallmark stamps. I guess I didn't know enough when I bought it, I saw the Browning stamp and assumed it was authentic. Hopefully I'm just reading the serial number web page wrong and someone on here can steer me in the right direction and I'm also hoping I didn't get taken by some sort of reproduction... Thanks in advance for any assistance...
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Post by ToddSig on Oct 10, 2023 10:36:48 GMT -5
Welcome to HPC bl, and congratulations on your new HP. FN/Browning serial numbers can be a bit of a mystery, due to FN serial number contract requests and serial number sequence transitions with overlaps. Please post a few images of your HP, each side, and any marks you can see. With the various HP characteristics and marks, we should be able to figure it out for you.
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bl
Member
Posts: 9
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Post by bl on Oct 10, 2023 11:12:45 GMT -5
Thanks!!! Any help would be greatly appreciated... I know there's Hi Power variants from many other countries, but are there counterfeits using the FN/Browning name?? Aren't the ones from other countries stamped that they were made in that country. At the same gun show I bought mine at, I found one stamped that it was made in Hungry for a significantly less amount of money... And are the true FN/Browning ones all stamped "Made in Belgium"? Because I can't find that on mine... I'll post some pics as soon as I can figure out how to do so... Thanks again...
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Post by tnorris on Oct 10, 2023 19:29:36 GMT -5
Thanks!!! Any help would be greatly appreciated... I know there's Hi Power variants from many other countries, but are there counterfeits using the FN/Browning name?? Aren't the ones from other countries stamped that they were made in that country. At the same gun show I bought mine at, I found one stamped that it was made in Hungry for a significantly less amount of money... And are the true FN/Browning ones all stamped "Made in Belgium"? Because I can't find that on mine... I'll post some pics as soon as I can figure out how to do so... Thanks again...
Please post some pictures.
The only counterfeit pistols I know of was one run made by FEG and sold to Iraq. They appear to be genuine FN High Powers except for a couple details.
FEG (Hungary) actually had a license to produce High Powers, as did Inglis (Canada) and FM (Argentina). Each of those and the Bulgarian Arcus clones are easily identifiable. Aside from these, an Inglis variation made in India and clones made in Turkey by Girsan and Tisas (Springfield SA-35)... I think that's about it for High Powers. By far, most were made in Belgium by Fabrique National who sent them all around the world!
An American company made 30 stainless steel High Powers but they were far too expensive. They were not a serious producer. There was something in the news a year ago about a British High Power, but I don't think they have delivered any, probably because of the Turkish clones and their low prices. I have run across rumors of a South African HP but I have never seen one or read much about it. There are plans available on the dark web so you can print your own... but you need a slide, barrel and a bunch of other critical parts.
Cheers, Tim
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Post by cmdrcody on Oct 11, 2023 7:22:32 GMT -5
You say yours has a Browning stamp but does it say Browning Arms Company or Browning’s Patent Depose?
The first one means it’s a Browning made by FN.
The second one was French (the language in Belgium) meaning Brownings patent filed. This was on most FN High Powers until around the 1990’s.
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bl
Member
Posts: 9
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Post by bl on Oct 11, 2023 9:11:58 GMT -5
Here are some pics.. Attachments:
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bl
Member
Posts: 9
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Post by bl on Oct 11, 2023 11:08:32 GMT -5
I have other pics but get an error that says they are too large when I try to attach them... I'll see if I can retake them...
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Post by CXM on Oct 11, 2023 11:17:59 GMT -5
Some were also made in Indonesia for the Indonesian army but from all I have seen there were not many made. Photos are very rare but they didn't appear to be well made... I'd guess no better than the Indian examples. There are also reports some were actually made in Iraq but I have not seen anything that convinces me that is true. One report suggested they were made in Egypt by Maadi which is suppose is possible. FWIW Chuck You say yours has a Browning stamp but does it say Browning Arms Company or Browning’s Patent Depose? The first one means it’s a Browning made by FN. The second one was French (the language in Belgium) meaning Brownings patent filed. This was on most FN High Powers until around the 1990’s. |
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Post by ToddSig on Oct 11, 2023 13:13:21 GMT -5
I have other pics but get an error that says they are too large when I try to attach them... I'll see if I can retake them... From the image of the trigger guard, the mark is from an FM Argentina High Power. FM (Fabricaciones Militares Sociedad del Estado (Spanish for Military Industries State Corporation)) first made their High Powers under contract and supervision with FN. Later they manufactured their own clones, after some early ones, the main identifying feature was a flat or slab slide like the 1911, and not the step down termination of the slide like the HP. FM true copies with the assistance and management of FN, then they manufactured the FM 90 then updated to the FM 95. They also made the detective length sold as a complete pistol and only the slide. Per a post by pjk9hp the mark "represents the image of the "Monumento a La Bandera" (Flag Monument) located in the city of Rosario in Santa Fe, Argentina where the FM factory is situated." Here is some info from American Rifleman magazine, www.americanrifleman.org/content/this-old-gun-argentine-fm-fap/and more info from Cruffler.com www.cruffler.com/review-February-01.htmlHere is an image of the Rosario mark on my FM90, non FN licensed clone followed by an image of the HP clone showing the slab or flat style slide. Try to resize your images and post some of the full pistol and markings and we should be able to let you know what your have.   |
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bl
Member
Posts: 9
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Post by bl on Oct 11, 2023 14:12:24 GMT -5
You say yours has a Browning stamp but does it say Browning Arms Company or Browning’s Patent Depose? The first one means it’s a Browning made by FN. The second one was French (the language in Belgium) meaning Brownings patent filed. This was on most FN High Powers until around the 1990’s. I'll try and retake the pic but on the opposite side of the slide from the ejection port mine says F.N. Browning nothing else.. |
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bl
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Posts: 9
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Post by bl on Oct 11, 2023 14:18:20 GMT -5
t Attachments:
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Post by tnorris on Oct 11, 2023 23:19:34 GMT -5
You say yours has a Browning stamp but does it say Browning Arms Company or Browning’s Patent Depose? The first one means it’s a Browning made by FN. The second one was French (the language in Belgium) meaning Brownings patent filed. This was on most FN High Powers until around the 1990’s. I'll try and retake the pic but on the opposite side of the slide from the ejection port mine says F.N. Browning nothing else..
It might be helpful to provide pictures of the entire right and left sides. You are limited to three pictures per message. Each picture must be less than 1mb in size.
Cheers, Tim
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Post by ToddSig on Oct 12, 2023 7:55:58 GMT -5
Yes, as Tim notes, more detailed images would be helpful, but this is certainly an interesting HP. A couple of observations, in looking at the images posted, I dont see any Belgian proof marks, particularly on the barrel. Also, is the "FN Browning" lettering raised? It looks like it in the image, but I could be wrong. And, to a lesser degree, the stacked serial numbers on the barrel, slide and frame are not directly aligned above each other as you would expect on an FN. They look a bit haphazardly placed. Please upload additional images. Image of Belgian proof mark on barrel and the stacked serial number placement.  |
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Post by cmdrcody on Oct 12, 2023 13:20:06 GMT -5
You say yours has a Browning stamp but does it say Browning Arms Company or Browning’s Patent Depose? The first one means it’s a Browning made by FN. The second one was French (the language in Belgium) meaning Brownings patent filed. This was on most FN High Powers until around the 1990’s. I'll try and retake the pic but on the opposite side of the slide from the ejection port mine says F.N. Browning nothing else.. FN BROWNING was never on the slide of a FN or Browning high power that I’ve ever seen or worked on. But most I’ve seen were manufactured by FN, no matter whether it was roll marked Fabrique Nationale (FN) or Browning. |
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Post by ToddSig on Oct 12, 2023 15:38:36 GMT -5
I'll try and retake the pic but on the opposite side of the slide from the ejection port mine says F.N. Browning nothing else.. of a FN or Browning high power that I’ve ever seen or worked on. Nice pick up. This gets more interesting with each post.  |
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