Mystery Hi Power Serial Number

[virtus822]

Recently acquired a Hi Power with the serial number: T263303. 

This serial number falls outside the date ranges provided by Browning in the following documentation: www.browning.com/support/date-your-firearm/hi-power-pistol.html

I cannot seem to find a resource that accurately includes this number. Any help identifying the production date would be appreciated.

Photo of this firearm attached.

Attachments:

[ToddSig]

Welcome to HPC, and great looking T series. Tell us more about where and when you got it.

Regarding the serial number, the Browning website serial number chart for T series Hi Powers is not correct, or I should say, is not complete. FN actually produced the “T” series 1964 through +/-72. There are many T series Hi Power that are serialized well above those listed on the website. There have been T Series serial numbers up into the 380,000 range with production extending 1972 (many are FN marked, but there are examples of Browning roll marked T series as well. Below is an image of FN surplus T Series with serial #377390.

I would think yours dates from late 1969 into 1970. Look on the barrel cam for a small single digit number with lines around it. That would be the production date mark for the part. There could also be production date marks on the bottom side of the slide, trigger, hammer and other small parts. Typically easiest one to find is on the barrel.  The serial number and assembly date would typically be later. than a parts production date. See image below for production date mark on my T barrel.

One of my T series serial #T225255, from 1968, barrel production mark from 4th quarter 1967. A backwards 7 with two lines, signifies the 4th quarter of 1967,





My Surplu T, dating to around 1972, with serial number 377390

[CXM]

As Todd has already explained, Browning's published serial number ranges are not complete and sometimes not accurate... this can cause headaches for collectors.

This is not so much a problem at Browning as it is a result of FN's serial numbering policy... Or lack thereof. Someone placing an order for a substantial number of guns (not just HPs) could specify the serial number range they wanted. This has resulted in duplicate serial numbers being produced over the years... So for example, if country A wanted their guns 1000-10,000 FN would produce guns with those numbers. If country B came along and wanted those same numbers FN would duplicate those numbers for country B. In practice, this is not a problem for anyone but collectors... But it can cause confusion... One friend observed this would never have happened with Swiss made guns... the Belgians are simply not a very organized people... Of course, who is as organized as the Swiss?

You have a very nice gun there... nice catch.

FWIW

Chuck

[Bob Reed]

That is a beautiful Hi-Power, and photo!

Welcome Aboard, Virtus.

[wheatshocker]

I too have an early Hi-Power with a T series serial number not found on the Browning guide. It is T284XXX, so I'm not sure of the exact production year but assume it must be 1970, 71 or 72.

Although not a huge deal for me, it would be kind of nice to be able to pinpoint year of manufacture.

[ToddSig]

Dec 11, 2022 22:12:29 GMT -5 wheatshocker said:

I too have an early Hi-Power with a T series serial number not found on the Browning guide. It is T284XXX, so I'm not sure of the exact production year but assume it must be 1970, 71 or 72.

Although not a huge deal for me, it would be kind of nice to be able to pinpoint year of manufacture.

wheatshocker, check some of the parts for production dates, the small number with a diamond or partial  diamond around it. You should definitely have one on the barrel, other places are on the trigger, hammer, firing pin plate, underside of the slide, back of the slide stop etc. If your mag is original, it might also have a production date, typically bottom of the sides near the base plate. If you find a couple of production dates, you T series will be most likely made shortly after the parts were manufactured (although they could have used older stock parts as well). It is too bad Browning has not corrected its T series table of serial numbers. I have a surplus T with serial number 377390, having production marks from 1972.

A full diamond signifies 1st quarter, open right lower second quarter, open left side 3rd quarter, left top line only, the rest open is 4th quarter.

Here are some images of my 1968 T series, T247679, with the diamond shape around the 8. Around that time, many High Powers were not marked with Controller of the Proof marks * over a letter.

Let us know what you discover, as it is always interesting to know dates on T series that are over the Browning stated numbers.

Image of my 1968 T


Production mark on the underside of the slide


Production mark on the magazine


Production mark on barrel

[wheatshocker]

Here a couple of marks you may be able to decipher:












Thanks,
-Phil

[ToddSig]

Phil, thanks for posting the additional images. The magazine to your T series is not original to the Hi Power. That said, it is a John Inglis split base mag, which are highly desirable to owners of the Canadian made Inglis High Power. The other images, with the exception of the barrel image I cant make much out. Can you look at the lower mark on the barrel foot and see if you can make out the number within the lines? That should give a good date for the production of the barrel.

[wheatshocker]

Thanks for all your help, Todd.

I took a zoomed in photo and on closer inspection, the character appears to be a backwards 7.




Hopefully, that helps.

PS: Thanks for pointing out the magazine mismatch. I forgot that I had the wrong magazine in that Hi-Power, so I found the factory mag which came with the gun and inserted it. I don't see any kind of markings on it though.

Turns out I have several of those Inglis magazines that I bought many years ago. Maybe I should try selling them now. 



Any idea where I could get early factory Browning Hi-Power 9mm 13rd magazines for a reasonable price? I have a C-series model that is missing the original magazine.

Thanks,
-Phil

[ToddSig]

Hi Phil, unfortunately the production date mark does not help with getting closer to a credible production/assembly date based on the T284xxx serial number. The backward 7 with a line over and to the right indicates the barrel was produced in the 4th quarter of 1967. Unless you can identify additional production date codes on parts, I think the best is a guess of later 1969 or into 1970.

In looking at the image of the underside of the slide, on the firing pin block, is there a diamond shaped polygon? If so, a better image or let us know what the number is inside. Again, part production date is just an indicator, and as we see on the barrel, no always a credible indicator on date of the Hi Power per the serial number.

Let us know if that is a production date mark, or just some other inspector mark.

[wheatshocker]

Todd,

Here are a couple of different close-up images of the slide:


  

Thanks,
-Phil

[wheatshocker]

After straining my eye's, I managed to find a very light mark on the backside of the base of the magazine:




Pretty hard to make out, but it might be another backwards 7 inside of a big U.


Thanks,
-Phil

[ToddSig]

Hey Phil, first the magazine, as that is an easy one. Open top box, backward 7, indicates first quarter production of 1967. Yeah, easy to get eye strain in looking at these marks, but it is still fun and interesting. In 1968 the production date mark lines were the 4 sided or partial diamond pattern, 1967 and prior they were all boxed lines and partial lines.

Hard to find the vintage FN/Browning mags. Many folks dont realize what they have and/or dont notice the production mark. I think they stopped marking the mags in the early 1970s. You need to look for similar body styles, no witness holes, and only mark the production date code, if that. I found a few on ebay (of course listed as a 10 round), but the seller was in touch with me from another board inqurie about the mags. I think I paid around $50/$60 per mag.

Re the Inglis mags, I am not an Inglis guy, so perhaps some other folks will add to the conversation. If you look on Gunbroker completed sales, some listed as WWII Inglis mags are selling between $70 and up to nearly $100 per.

For the T series slide, in looking as best I can I think the production mark may be the 1st quarter of 1970. I dont see a tail on the upper circle portion for a 9. Although it could be a light strike. So either first quarter of 1969 if the mark is a 9 or first quarter of 1970 if the number is 0. Both could work per the serial number. The circle part sits high in the diamond, so it could be a 9 with a light strike and therefore the tail is missing. Perhaps someone with better eyes on the mark can be more specific. Great discussion always fun trying to figure these things out. FN/Browning gives us hints, and direction, but no absolutes!

[wheatshocker]

Although faint, I do see a tail on the 9, so, I'm pretty sure that's a 9 inside the diamond.

If so, does that mean 1969?

[ToddSig]

Dec 15, 2022 12:17:21 GMT -5 wheatshocker said:

Although feint, I do see a tail on the 9, so, I'm pretty sure that's a 9 inside the diamond.

If so, does that mean 1969?

Yep, if there is a tail, and that makes sense given the higher orientation of the circle portion in the diamond it is 1969. All four lines of the diamond pattern are visible. So with that, clearly 1st quarter of 1969 for the production date of the slide.