Serial number question

[ToddSig]

Welcome to the Forum.
Can you post a few images? Is it an FN rollmark or Browning rollmark? MZ is for 2001, but there are a few things that dont seem to add up, which is not unusual for Hi Power serial numbers. 245 is the prefix designation for a 9mm hi power. Around 1998 the 245 prefix was changed to 510 or 511 prefix. So if you have a 245 prefix which was used from +/-1976 to about 1998 it should be manufactured before 1998. Are you sure you are reading the MZ (2001) on the serial number correctly? Also, why do you think it is an 88MKII, more details on why you think it is 1988 and where did you get the 88 from. Not to confuse things, but in the 1980s Howco imported Hi Powers under the Model 88 name. Could you have a Howco import Hi Power? If so, it still would not be MZ in the serial number. Any 1980s Hi Power should have a 245 prefix and a two digit alpha year code starting with a P (245P?XXXXX).

Could it be 245NZ for 1991?

If it is a surplus contract Hi Power, the serial number could be based on the contract, and then all bets are off. But, much seems to indicate a regular Hi Power production, just some things are not aligning properly. Again, some images would be helpful.

[tnorris]

Good morning Coreman,

I posted some info in your other thread about this pistol.

The finish has wear characteristics of my 2002 pistol, a MK3.
The sight profile looks to be the same as the 2002.
The spur hammer profile is the same as my 2004 (with stock Hammer)
The serial number on the frame is in the same spot as my 2003 Vigilante MK3.
Looking at the serial number placement on the barrel, it seems to be correct for the MK3 pistols and I think I can see the loaded chamber indicator space between the rear of the barrel and front of the extractor, indicating the new style barrel.

I would guess that ToddSig has more to add... I don't think there were counterfeit copies of the MK3. As far as I know, no one made a clone of the MK3.

About the finish: I bought my 2002 new and have taken very good care of it. Even so, the finish has wear marks which look much like those in your picture #1 - on the slide below the rear sight. This is just the way the finish takes minor scratches. I think of them as worm tracks. Also, on the frame just above/behind the trigger you see a shadow that makes the finish look wavy... mine is exactly the same. I think it is just the way the finish catches the light.

My 9mm MK3 has the product code 511. My .40 caliber MK3s are 513. If yours was a 2001 as the date code suggests, it should be 511 or 510. It is possible the info at the Browning website is incorrect or not a hard rule for all production or is only for pistols roll marked Browning?

From Browning:

In 1975 Browning standardized its serial number identification which it followed until 1998.

               245=9mm

In 1998 Browning redid the standardization of its serial number identifications to work with its new data base program, Oracle.

               510=Hi Power   

My 2002 9mm is 511, not 510. My 2003 and 2004 .40 calibers are both 513. All three are roll marked FN and imported through FN USA, not through Browning. Yours has no US importer listed.

I think you have a 2001 MK3 and it possibly is in better shape than the finish in the photos indicate.

Cheers,

Tim

[ToddSig]

I agree with Tim, you have a 2001 MKIII.

Not sure why you were thinking 88 and MKII. Your pistol has the larger MKIII dovetailed front and rear sights, ambi safety, and rounded ejection port, and no slide rib, cant see if you have a muzzle drainage hole typical of many MKIIs. I am not an expert on FN rollmarked High Powers, but it certainly looks like a very nice condition surplus 2001 FN High Power with lanyard ring. Possibly Israeli surplus???, others might comment on that.

Are there any import marks on the pistol? The location on the frame of the serial number above the grip is not seen often, again perhaps indicating surplus rather than commercial sales, while most serial numbers are on the front grip strap or under the ejection port. It might have been located there per the contract, or perhaps added for import into the US, if I recall correctly the US requires the serial number to be on the frame, some other countries use the slide or barrel. I have also seen that serial number location for some FN US imports (non Browning imports). The lone question is the 245 prefix post 1998, but it is not unusual for FN to use older stock, continue pervious marks during long transition periods, or mark according to a contract request. That might remain a mystery.

In any event you have a nice looking 2001 MKIII. Shoot it and enjoy.

[coreman]

Dec 6, 2020 9:00:50 GMT -5 tnorris said:

Good morning Coreman,

I posted some info in your other thread about this pistol.

The finish has wear characteristics of my 2002 pistol, a MK3.
The sight profile looks to be the same as the 2002.
The spur hammer profile is the same as my 2004 (with stock Hammer)
The serial number on the frame is in the same spot as my 2003 Vigilante MK3.
Looking at the serial number placement on the barrel, it seems to be correct for the MK3 pistols and I think I can see the loaded chamber indicator space between the rear of the barrel and front of the extractor, indicating the new style barrel.

I would guess that ToddSig has more to add... I don't think there were counterfeit copies of the MK3. As far as I know, no one made a clone of the MK3.

About the finish: I bought my 2002 new and have taken very good care of it. Even so, the finish has wear marks which look much like those in your picture #1 - on the slide below the rear sight. This is just the way the finish takes minor scratches. I think of them as worm tracks. Also, on the frame just above/behind the trigger you see a shadow that makes the finish look wavy... mine is exactly the same. I think it is just the way the finish catches the light.

My 9mm MK3 has the product code 511. My .40 caliber MK3s are 513. If yours was a 2001 as the date code suggests, it should be 511 or 510. It is possible the info at the Browning website is incorrect or not a hard rule for all production or is only for pistols roll marked Browning?

From Browning:

In 1975 Browning standardized its serial number identification which it followed until 1998.

               245=9mm

In 1998 Browning redid the standardization of its serial number identifications to work with its new data base program, Oracle.

               510=Hi Power   

My 2002 9mm is 511, not 510. My 2003 and 2004 .40 calibers are both 513. All three are roll marked FN and imported through FN USA, not through Browning. Yours has no US importer listed.

I think you have a 2001 MK3 and it possibly is in better shape than the finish in the photos indicate.

Cheers,

Tim

Thanks Tim for a very detailed reply... very informative... I will post new pics when available...

[coreman]

ToddSig Thank you too mate... also your reply is very informative...

[ibmikey]

I too have a MkIII with the serial over the right grip and no import mark, no telling where the pistols have been. I just bought a Hi Power Browning marked ( not FN) for N America sales and was recently brought in to the US. From Spain . I wonder how it ended up in Spain?

[ToddSig]

Dec 7, 2020 23:34:09 GMT -5 ibmikey said:

I too have a MkIII with the serial over the right grip and no import mark, no telling where the pistols have been. I just bought a Hi Power Browning marked ( not FN) for N America sales and was recently brought in to the US. From Spain . I wonder how it ended up in Spain?

IbKikey, thanks for posting, can you post an image of the Hi Power with the serial number over the right grip? The OP, Coreman in another thread he started has asked about the serial number location, highpowercollectors.proboards.com/thread/966/browning-power-serial-number-ranges

[tnorris]

Link to photos of HP w/ sr# above right grip panel:

highpowercollectors.proboards.com/post/7427/thread